HC Deb 12 May 1884 vol 288 cc16-7
MR. DIXON-HARTLAND

asked the Vice President of the Committee of Council, Whether he is aware that the school buildings belonging to the Birmingham School Board have been repeatedly used on Sundays for lectures of a violent political character, at which controversial subjects are publicly discussed, amongst which have been "A Defence of Nihilism," "Home Rule for Ireland," "Lord Randolph Churchill and Political Immorality," "Lord Beaconsfield a Traitor," "Socialism versus Monarchy;" whether he is aware that one of the ratepayers brought this question before the Birmingham School Board at their meetings on the 3rd of April and 1st of May, and objected publicly to the misuse of the building, the desecration of the Sabbath, and probable breach of the peace; and, whether such misuse of Board School buildings is legal; and, if not, whether he will take immediate steps to mark his disapproval of the practice, and order its discontinuance?

MR. MUNDELLA

The Education Department has no right of interference with the discretion of School Boards. [Mr. WARTON: It ought to have.] It has not, and ought not to have, any right to interfere in the letting of school buildings out of school hours. The clerk of the Birmingham Board writes to me that the Board lets its rooms on Sundays, as well as on week-day evenings, to bodies of ratepayers who give sufficient guarantees for the preservation of the buildings and furniture and the payment of rent. The rooms are used for Sunday school and religious services, as well as for lectures on secular subjects. I might mention that when I was at Birmingham, about two years ago, the hon. Member for North Warwickshire (Mr. Newdegate) was addressing his constituents in a Board school.

MR. DIXON - HARTLAND

On Sunday?

MR. MUNDELLA

On Sunday; certainly not. The clerk further states that no lecture on Lord Beaconsfield has ever been delivered, nor any on "Home Rule in Ireland;" but one was delivered on "Home Rule" which related solely to the principle of local govern- ment. The lecture on the noble Lord the Member for Woodstock (Lord Randolph Churchill) ended in the passing of a resolution by the Lecture Society, that "for the future lectures on English Party politics shall be rigidly excluded."

MR. DIXON-HARTLAND

said, the right hon. Gentleman had not answered the Question whether he would take immediate steps to mark his disapproval of the practice, and order its discontinuance?

MR. MUNDELLA

I have already stated that we have no control over School Boards in regard to the letting of their buildings out of school hours. I think it is a very useful practice that public buildings should be used indiscriminately for proper and useful purposes. [An hon. MEMBER: On Sundays?] I understand that on Sundays the buildings in question are used for lectures oil religious subjects.

MR. MAC IVER

Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that the subjects mentioned in the Question were useful subjects?

MR. MUNDELLA

The so-called "Defence of Nihilism," was a lecture delivered in opposition to Nihilism.

MR. BULWER

asked whether another of the lectures referred to was not entitled "Socialism v. Monarchy?"

MR. MUNDELLA

No, Sir; that is a mistake. The whole matter is fully explained in a letter eight pages long, which I have here, but I do not intend to trouble the House with it. I shall be happy to show it to hon. Members privately.

MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR

asked whether it was not a fact that if the managers of voluntary schools allowed their schools to be used for political purposes, they rendered themselves liable to forfeit the Government grant?

MR. MUNDELLA

Certainly not, Sir. The Governors of voluntary schools constantly use their school buildings for political purposes.