HC Deb 06 May 1884 vol 287 cc1480-3
MR. M'COAN

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether General Gordon's Mission to the Soudan originated in an unsolicited offer of service from himself, or was undertaken, at the special request of Her Majesty's Government; whether any, and what, assistance has been, given to him by either the British or Egyptian authorities to carry out "the effective measures" indicated in the Commission appointing him Governor General of the Soudan; and, whether, in the face of a victorious and rapidly-spreading Revolution, he was expected to effect the withdrawal of the beleaguered garrisons, and— Establish an organized Government in the different provinces of the Soudan, for the maintenance of order, and the cessation of all disasters and incitement to revolt, by his own moral influence alone?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

The whole circumstances connected with General Gordon's mission are to be found in the Papers laid before Parliament. I wish to make an explanation in regard to the Paper, Egypt No. 15, distributed yesterday evening. As I stated on the 2nd of May, that Paper contains the telegrams from General Gordon, which are referred to in Sir Evelyn Baring's telegrams, Nos. 19 and 24 in Egypt No. 13. Those telegrams were received at the Foreign Office on April 28, by post, in two covering despatches, which stand Nos. I and 3 in Egypt No. 15. It has been the practice of the Foreign Office, in regard to such despatches, to lay them, with the dates attached to the telegrams which they represent; and hence it is that these two despatches are marked "received by telegraph April 16," and "April 18," instead of April 28, which was the date, as I have stated, of the actual receipt of the despatches by post.

SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFF

The noble Lord says these telegrams were received only when they came under despatches by post. Were they not received at the dates marked upon them?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

The hon. Member mistakes me. What I said was that the telegrams from Sir Evelyn Baring were received on the 16th and 18th April, but that the despatch transmitting the full text of the telegrams was only received on April 28. It is usual, as the House is aware, in Foreign Office Papers, to mark despatches containing telegrams with the date of the telegrams which they represent, and not with the actual date of the receipt of the telegrams themselves.

MR. BOURKE

Are we to understand that these telegrams, although they were not received in text as printed, were received telegraphically from Sir Evelyn Baring on the 16th and 18th of April?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

No; that is not quite it. The telegrams from Sir Evelyn Baring contained a summary of the telegrams from General Gordon, and those are already before Parliament. We have presented the full text as soon as we possibly could.

MR. BOURKE

Substantially the telegraphic messages received on the 16th were the same as those received on the 28th?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

I did not use the word "substantially." I will ask the right hon. Member to form his own opinion.

MR. M'COAN

In reference to the second paragraph of my Question, I have carefully read the Papers, and have found no mention made that any assistance has been given to General Gordon to carry out the "effective measures" indicated in the communication appointing him Governor General of the Soudan. Am I to understand from the noble Lord that no assistance has been given? Nothing is disclosed in the Papers. I have also failed to discover anything in answer to the third Question, whether he would be expected to carry out those important measures involving a good deal of risk and some military action by the aid of moral influence alone?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

The hon. Member is inviting me to enter into a premature debate on the Papers.

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, What reply Her Majesty's Government made to the telegram of General Gordon, dated April 11th, in which the following passages occur:— You state your intention of not sending any relief up here or to Berber, and you refuse me Zebehr. I consider myself free to act according to circumstances. I shall hold on here as long as I can, and if I can suppress the rebellion I shall do so. If I cannot I shall retire to the Equator, and leave you indelible disgrace of abandoning the garrisons of Sennaar, Kassala, Berber, and Dongola, with the certainty that you will eventually be forced to smash up the Mahdi under great difficulties if you would retain peace in Europe?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

The hon. Member will find the reply on page 15 of "Egypt No. 13."

MR. LABOUCHERE

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether he is aware upon what General Gordon based the statement in his Proclamation of February 27th, that "British troops are now on their way, and in a few days will reach Khartoum?"

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

Her Majesty's Government are not informed on what authority General Gordon made this statement.

MR. LABOUCHERE

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether any endeavour is being made to inform the Mahdi of the readiness of the Egyptian Government to evacuate the Soudan, and of the decision of Her Majesty's Government to recognize the independence of that country?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

No, Sir.

MR. LABOUCHERE

I would ask the noble Lord whether it is contemplated to take any such steps?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

I have answered the Question on the Paper.

MR. LABOUCHERE

Then, Sir, I beg to give Notice that I will ask the Question on Thursday.