HC Deb 02 May 1884 vol 287 cc1149-51
MR. M'LAREN

asked the Lord Advocate, If his attention has been called to the following case, as reported in The Edinburgh Daily Review:— On Friday April 26th, at Perth Sheriff Court, a boy ten years of age, who pleaded guilty to stealing one shilling from a lockfast drawer in the Railway goods office at Aberfeldy, was sentenced to ten days' imprisonment, and thereafter to be detained in a reformatory for five years. When sentence was passed the boy burst into tears, clung to his mother, and refused to be separated from her. It was only after the lapse of some time, and the use of force by the police officers, that the boy was separated from his mother and lodged in prison; if he can say what is the total cost to the public of the maintenance of a child for five years in a reformatory; and, whether the Home Office still discourages the practice of convicting and imprisoning, as criminals, children of tender years?

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

I have inquired into this case, and have received a report on the question. The boy seems to have been a bad boy, in the habit of thieving. This is not his first offence. He is one of five children, and his mother admitted that it was a good thing for the child to be sent to a reformatory. Therefore, there is no fault to be found in that case. But I take this opportunity of saying that I do think there are a great many cases of children sent to a reformatory for a long period for which there is no justification. It has not been sufficiently considered that it is a very serious thing to take away a child for five years from its parents, and when there has not been a sufficient inquiry made into the character of the home. Two cases have come before me recently, in one of which after the sentence had expired and the child had been taken away from its parents—and the home was not a bad one—the child was sent away for years without the knowledge of its parents, and he was sent on board a North Sea fishing smack. In the other case the child, who was a girl, was emigrated without the knowledge and against the wish of her parents. This seems to me to be a monstrous abuse. I need not say that I at once took steps to have the children restored to their parents. But I think that very much more care ought to be taken than is taken, and it ought not to be considered right in every case to send a child to a reformatory. My hon. Friend asked whether attention is still paid in the Home Office to juvenile offences. Yes, Sir. No case of the kind fails to come under my personal notice, and inquiries are made. I am happy to say it is very rare now that I can find a case in which, upon inquiry, there was no sufficient justification for the sentence. The magistrates have acted with me most cordially with the view of diminishing, as far as possible, the number of children in prison, and the number of children has largely diminished. In all England last week there were only four cases, and I think, therefore, that on the whole the matter may be considered to be in a satisfactory condition. A great deal has been done without legislation. But there is one thing also which I ask leave to mention. That is the habit of inflicting heavy costs in these cases of small crimes. The right hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir R. Assheton Cross), in his Summary Jurisdiction Act, made a most admirable rule that the costs were not to be inflicted except in special circumstances. But the magistrates' clerks always press to have these costs inflicted. This is a very great evil, because the parents are often unable to pay and the children cannot be sent to school.

SIR R. ASSHETON CROSS

Has the right hon. and learned Gentleman issued any Circular to the Justiciary clerks pointing out the provisions of the Act so far as costs are concerned?

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

I shall be very happy to do that. I have written over and over again on this subject. It is an immense grievance, and contrary to the intention of the Statute. It often happens that when a fine of 1s. is imposed, the costs amount to 20s. or 30s., and the man goes to prison in consequence of the costs. I would make an appeal to those who administer the Education Act. The way in which children for mere truancy, which ought not to be treated as a crime, are sent for years to a reformatory school and taken away from their home, even when the home is not a bad one, seems to be an extremely wrong one, and I hope the practice will not be repeated.

MR. ONSLOW

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman issue a Circular to that effect?

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

I think it better not to do so. I would rather leave it to the discretion of the magistrates.