§ SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACHasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether he can inform the House why the telegrams sent by Sir E. Malet to Hicks Pacha are not included in the Egyptian Papers lately published; and, whether he will lay upon the Table without delay any telegrams or other communications sent by Sir E. Malet or Sir E. Baring to any Egyptian officials in the Soudan? The right hon. Gentleman added: I may say, in explanation, that I refer to any telegrams or communications sent by Sir Edward Malet or Sir Evelyn Baring, and whether originating from Her Majesty's Government or the Egyptian Government.
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICESir, the Foreign Office have no cognizance of any telegrams from Sir Edward Malet to General Hicks beyond that given as an inclosure in Egypt, No. 22, 1883, No. 80, and the telegram, the full substance of which is given in Sir Edward Malet's despatch of July 2, No. 59, page 72. Sir Edward Malet's telegram of June 22 to General Hicks, referred to in inclosure No. 2 in No. 58, page 7, was evidently an inquiry made respecting some Italian missionaries believed to have been captured by the Mahdi.
§ SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACHMay I ask the noble Lord whether the correspondence that has taken place between Sir Evelyn Wood and General Hicks will be produced? Some letters have passed, I know, between these officials, and I think they ought to be produced.
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICEI think that is a Question of which I may fairly ask Notice.
§ SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACHDo I understand the noble Lord that no telegram or other communication has passed between Sir Edward Malet or Sir Evelyn Baring and any Egyptian officials except those which he has named?
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICEI answered the Question on the Paper.
§ SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACHThe Question on the Paper is this—
Why the telegrams sent by Sir E. Male to Hicks Pacha are not included in the Egyptian Papers lately published; and, whether the Government will lay upon the Table without delay any telegrams or other communications sent by Sir E. Malet or Sir E. Baring to any Egyptian officials in the Soudan?
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICEMy answer, I think, quite covered the second part of the Question as well as the first—namely, that the Foreign Office had no cognizance whatever of any such communications.
§ LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILLMay I ask the noble Lord, and, if he does not like to answer it, I will give him Notice of it for to-morrow, whether it is a positive fact that the Foreign Office are unaware that the following telegram was sent from Sir Edward Malet to General Hicks Pasha:—
Orders have been sent by Cherif Pahsa to Suleiman Pasha, the Egyptian commander-in-chief in the Soudan, that no military movements are to be made without your advice and consent, and, consequently, that you are virtually commander-in-chief; that if he hears from yourself that your orders are disobeyed Cherif Pahsa will repeat them; and that you cannot be made commander-in-chief because the rebellion is a religious one, and if a Christian were publicly appointed to the head of the army to put it down, it would probably fan fanaticism.I wish to ask if such a telegram could have been sent without the Foreign Office being cognizant of it; and whether the noble Lord will say whether such a telegram was sent, and, if it was, was it not strictly an official telegram, for which Her Majesty's Government must be directly responsible?
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICEI shall be obliged to ask the noble Lord to put that Question on the Notice Paper.
§ SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACHI have another Question—if the noble Lord cannot answer it now I will give Notice of it—whether he will inquire from Sir Edward Malet and Sir Evelyn 435 Baring if any such communications or telegrams have been addressed by them; and, if so, whether copies of them will be laid on the Table?
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICECertainly I must ask the right hon. Gentleman to give Notice of that Question.
§ MR. O'DONNELLWith regard to the telegram of which the noble Lord knows nothing, and of a Question as to which he requires Notice, is it true that the telegram is already printed in No. 2?
§ MR. JUSTIN M'CARTHYasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether it has been brought to the knowledge of Her Majesty's Government that the Egyptian authorities lately set on foot a system of man-hunting to get recruits for Baker Pacha's regiments to fight the Mahdi; whether, at Zagazig and other Railway Stations, black men were seen chained together by the neck, and guarded by Baker Pacha's gendarmerie; whether these were men who had been pressed or captured to serve against the Mahdi, and whether these prisoners were described as. "volunteers;" whether about one hundred and fifty such "volunteers" were obtained in a few days in the neighbourhood of Zagazig; whether he is aware that Baker Pacha stated openly in Cairo that all he could do with such men as those placed under his command would be to shut himself up at Souakim or get massacred in an attempt to reach Berber; and, whether the enrolment of "volunteers" above described, and the opinions of Baker Pacha, were known to the English representatives at Cairo some six weeks ago?
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICENo reports in this sense have been received at the Foreign Office.
§ MR. JUSTIN M'CARTHYIn consequence of the answer of the noble Lord, I shall, on the earliest day, call attention to the subject.