§ LORD GEORGE HAMILTONasked the First Lord of the Treasury, If his attention has been directed to that portion of the instructions given to the Boundary Commissioners, by which they are directed in forming the divisions of the different new County constituencies to exclude the population of the Parliamentary Boroughs; whether the practical effect of such an instruction will not be to disfranchise the existing County voters whose qualification (under section 10 of the Representation of the People Act) is a freehold within the limits of Boroughs; and, whether, in accordance with his distinct promise that the Franchise Bill should not be a disfranchising enactment, he will cause the instructions on this point to he so revised as not to disqualify this class of County voter?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEThe instruction does not touch the county voters having freehold qualification for the county in boroughs, who will still be entitled to vote for the division of the county in which the borough is situate. The population is only excluded for the purpose of determining the area of the county divisions of the county proper; but, where the county voters are numerous in a borough, some account of their 653 numbers may properly be taken in determining the extent of the county division.
§ MR. NEWDEGATEwished to ask whether, in case of freeholders voting for divisions of counties from freeholds in towns, the Boundary Commissioners would have power to assign to the holdings the places in which they were to vote?
§ SIR CHAELES W. DILKEThey will assign the divisions; but not the voting places.
§ MR. CHAPLINasked, whether the Government had entered into any pledge to consider the maintenance of any specified points in connection with the Bill as vital to that measure and to the existence of the Government; and, if so, whether he would state to the House the particulars on which they had given any such pledge?
MR. GLADSTONEI must, with regret, repeat my expression of inability, consistently with my duty, and, I think, consistently with Parliamentary usage, to make any statement as to the points in the Bill for the redistribution of seats, which, in the course of discussion, the Government may or may not consider vital. I cannot, therefore, make any statement now. "With regard to the rest of the Question, I have only to say that the responsibility of the Government to the House with regard to the Bill is precisely the same, as full and as absolute, as with regard to any other Bill they have ever submitted to the House, and the House will feel itself equally free to deal with any proposition in that Bill as in any other measure ever brought forward.
§ MR. CHAPLINinquired whether the Report and recommendations of the Boundary Commissioners were to be considered final by the Government, or were to be open to any modification by the House of Commons?
MR. GLADSTONEIn the view of the Government, and, perhaps, in the view of the House, the most important of the duties in connection with the Boundary Commission is the selection of the names; and on that ground I was careful to state to the House the names which had been chosen in regard to England. It is obvious that great confidence ought to be placed in the Report of such a Commission, if the names of the Commissioners are such as will recommend 654 themselves to the approval of the House. Well, Sir, the Government certainly are inclined, from the selection that has been made, from our knowledge of the experience, trustworthiness, and ability of the gentlemen who have been chosen, to place very great confidence indeed, by anticipation, in the results of their inquiries, and I am unwilling to suppose that they will not give satisfaction to the House; but, at the same time, when one considers the details into which these things may go, I quite admit that it is impossible for the House to preclude itself from a freedom of judging of these recommendations. It is impossible to say anything absolutely on the subject of their finality.
MR. GORSTasked if it were intended that a Select Committee of the House of Commons should be appointed to revise the Report of the Commissioners, as was done in 1868?
MR. GLADSTONECertainly not. I should think it a very great misfortune if the House entered into any such measure, and I can promise that the Government will be no party to it.
§ MR. O'DONNELLWith regard to the explanations of vital or non-vital points in the Parliamentary Elections, Redistribution, Bill, may I inquire if the period of consultation with the Leaders of the non-responsible Opposition is definitely closed; or whether there are any points upon which the Government will still have from time to time to consult the Leaders of the Opposition; and, whether Her Majesty's Government will in all cases state to the House the points upon which they are engaged with the Opposition?
MR. GLADSTONEThe statement which I had the honour to make in introducing the Bill to the House supplies the House with sufficient information for the present. I am not able to make any addition to it.
§ SIR JOHN HAYCan the right hon. Gentleman give the names of the Boundary Commissioners for Scotland?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEThe work, such as in England will be done by Major Tulloch, Mr. Pelham, and Mr. Henley, will in Scotland be done by Major General Bailey, of the Royal Engineers; but the Commission—virtually the English Commission—will receive his Reports. That Commission will consist of himself, Sir John Lam- 655 bert, the Chairman of the English Commission; Sir Francis Sandford, Mr. Donald Crawford, advocate, Secretary to the Lord Advocate: with the same Secretary as for the English Commission —namely, Mr. Howel Thomas.
DR. CAMERONThe right hon. Baronet mentioned the other day that the grouping of boroughs in Scotland was not to be entrusted to this Commission, and that that was to be left open to the consideration of the House. I wish to ask whether the Government have any scheme for re-arranging the Scotch boroughs?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEI said in the House that we thought the grouping of the Scotch boroughs was one that ought to be threshed out before the whole House. If the Scotch Members could agree amongst themselves in advance, that would greatly facilitate the matter. What we have found is that, although there is a great deal of dissatisfaction in regard to the existing grouping, there is no agreement as to the principle upon which the re-grouping should proceed.
§ MR. H. H. FOWLERReferring to the instructions of the Boundary Commissioners with respect to the division of boroughs, I want to ask what is the meaning of the following sentence:—
In the arrangement of the divisions special regard should be had to the pursuits of the population.I wish to know whether that means that the boroughs are to be divided upon class, or sectional, or social pursuits?
§ SIR CHAELES W. DILKEIf I were a Member of the Commission I should understand that as being a general direction to have regard to the varying nature of the representation. I do not think I can give any fuller answer.
§ MR. GRAYinquired whether the Government were still open to consider the desirability of including on the Irish Boundary Commission some gentleman or gentlemen of a non-official character, who would inspire general confidence?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEsaid, this was a question which had been carefully considered, and it was almost impossible to find a man in Ireland who would inspire general confidence. But really there was very little boundary work to be done in Ireland.