HC Deb 29 April 1884 vol 287 cc897-900
MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, What is the date of the last despatch or message received from General Gordon; and, whether the Governor of Berber has telegraphed that it is impossible to send any more messages to Khartoum? The hon. Member also asked whether there was any truth in the report, contained in The Standard, that a considerable number of Bashi-Bazouks and soldiers under General Gordon had gone over to the enemy?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

In answer to the Question on the Paper, I have to say that the last message received from General Gordon was dated the 9th of April. General Gordon's agent at Berber has telegraphed to Mr. Egerton that he cannot get messengers from Berber to Khartoum. With reference to the other Question, I have also received private Notice from my right hon. Friend the Member for Bradford (Mr. W. E. Forster) that he was going to ask me a Question similar to that which the hon. Member has just asked me; but I think it would be better that I should answer it at once. The last telegram we received was dated the 27th of April, from Mr. Egerton to Lord Granville, to the effect that four brigades of Sanjaks or Shageeyah Bedouins from Khartoum and 500 soldiers had joined the rebels. On those actual words it might, no doubt, be thought that they were troops actually at Khartoum; but the words are susceptible of the other interpretation—namely, that they were troops at Berber; and if hon. Members will refer to The Daily News telegram they will see that the latter interpretation is the correct one. The Daily News telegram is to the effect that— Four Sanjaks of Scingkea have joined the rebels with 500 soldiers. The Sanjaks came from Khartoum. It is, therefore, quite clear that the telegram received by Lord Granville alludes to Sanjaks at Berber who had come from Khartoum.

LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL

Are we to understand that the telegrams in The Daily News are official?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

No; but I quoted the one which appears this morning, because it contains information elucidating our short telegram, and also because I know the great and painful interest that telegrams on this subject excite among the friends of General Gordon.

SIR R. ASSHETON CROSS

Have the Government no telegrams of their own from Cairo on this subject?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

I have stated that Lord Granville received a telegram from Mr. Egerton, and I read it to the House.

SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFF

Would it not be possible to instruct the authorities in Egypt to send a fuller telegram on this subject?

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT

May I ask whether there is any information from Berber with regard to the evacuation of that town; if it is true that the inhabitants have fled northwards; and, whether all telegraphic communication with General Gordon is not at an end?

MR. CHAPLIN

I should like to ask Her Majesty's Government one Question—Whether, in view of this recent information which it appears the Government have received, they are still of opinion that the position of General Gordon is one of security at Khartoum?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

In reply to the Question of the hon. Member for Eye, no actual information has been received of the withdrawal of the Governor from Berber. I have nothing to add to what fell from the Prime Minister on this point yesterday. With respect to telegraphic communication with Khartoum, no doubt the withdrawal of the garrison of Berber would cause Dongola to be the nearest place in that direction to which there would be telegraphic communication from Cairo; but I cannot at this moment positively state that that is so.

MR. GIBSON

The noble Lord says that the date of the last message received from General Gordon was the 9th of April. Would he tell the House what is the date of the last message the Government sent to General Gordon?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

I have not all the telegrams here, and therefore I cannot state on the spur of the moment. I should prefer to answer the Question on Notice.

MR. CHAPLIN

I wish to press the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for War for an answer to my Question—namely, whether, in view of recent information, the Government are still of opinion that General Gordon's position a Khartoum is one of security?

THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON

I did not know the hon. Member addressed the Question to me; but I think the House will not expect me to answer it without Notice.

MR. CHAPLIN

I beg to give Notice that I will ask the Question to-morrow.

MR. W. E. FORSTER

I was glad to hear the reply of my noble Friend. I understand the Government have reason to believe that these telegrams relate to the desertion of troops from Berber, and not from Khartoum; and yet in the telegram I alluded to the words are, "leaving Khartoum helpless." I suppose I may understand my noble Friend to believe that the 500 soldiers are soldiers at Berber, and not at Khartoum?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

Yes; that is my decided impression.

MR. W. E. FORSTER

Might I ask another Question? Is the French Consul still at Khartoum; and do the Government know what number of English officers or English officials there were at Berber when the evacuation began?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

I believe a French Acting Consul is still at Khartoum. With regard to how many officials there were at Berber, I do not think I could give accurate information without Notice.

LORD JOHN MANNERS

Will the noble Lord telegraph to Cairo at once, and ask whether the construction put upon the desertion of these troops by the last Daily News telegram is a true version or not?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

I am not; sure whether the Secretary of State has given instructions; but I shall have no objection to informing him that this Question has been asked by the noble Lord.

MR. W. E. FORSTER

I am inclined to hope that the noble Lord's interpretation of the telegram is a correct one. The matter is of vital interest; and I should like to ask the noble Lord whether he would take steps to telegraph immediately to Mr. Egerton to inquire if it is correct or not?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

I have already stated, in reply to the noble Lord opposite, that I will bring the matter before the Secretary of State at once.