§ MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTasked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether, in view of the information that Khartoum is hemmed in by insurgent Arabs and that General Gordon's palace is daily riddled with Arab bullets, that General Gordon has telegraphed that the situation is desperate, that General Gordon has asked that voluntary subscriptions for £200,000 and 3,000 nizams are necessary for his release, and that Hussein Khalifa, with his garrison and over 2,000 refugees, mostly women and children, are in great peril of massacre at Berber, Her Majesty's Government will now state that a relief expedition is being prepared for the relief of Berber and Khartoum? He would also ask the right hon. Gentleman, Whether Her Majesty's Ministers have decided to send an expedition to save General Gordon and to relieve Khartoum; and, if he cannot now inform the House at what time Her Majesty's Ministers will be able to make such a statement? He would further ask the Premier, Whether it is true that the Government have ordered the abandonment of the garrison of Berber; and, whether the people of that town are now retiring upon Korosko?
MR. GLADSTONEApart from the addition which the hon. Member has made vivâ voce. the two first Questions are mostly repetitions of Questions which I answered on Thursday last, and I have nothing to add to the answers I then made. In truth, as regards Berber, there are very special reasons for not making any addition to those answers, because we have no final intelligence with regard to that place; and we might, by giving an answer, be compromising the interest either of those persons who are in the place, or of those who have quitted it. As regards the addition made in the last Question of the hon. Member, I have to say that no such instruction has been issued by the Government.
§ MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTHas the garrison left Berber? Berber is evacuated.
MR. GLADSTONEWe have no decisive and final intelligence on that subject. We are informed that a certain portion of the troops and other persons have left Berber; but we do not know anything more, and no account is given of the garrison.
§ MR. E. STANHOPEWill the right hon. Gentleman inform the House whether General Gordon has been consulted with regard to the evacuation of Berber in any way?
MR. GLADSTONEThis Question proceeds, I think, on a misapprehension. There has been no power of obtaining an answer from General Gordon since the new intelligence was received that Berber was in difficulties.
§ MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTI wish to ask the Prime Minister, seeing that he did not answer the last part of my Question, Whether he can inform us at what time Her Majesty's Ministers will be able to make a statement in regard to the despatch of an expedition; and perhaps the Prime Minister or the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs will tell us what is the date of the last despatch or message from General Gordon?
MR. GLADSTONEI thought the hon. Member would see that it would be quite impossible to make any answer to that Question, or to the request for such a statement. I have already stated that we hold ourselves responsible with regard to the security of General Gordon. We have heard nothing to the effect that General Gordon is insecure, and it is perfectly impossible for me to make any such answer as the hon. Member seems to expect. I may say, with regard to the Question so obviously put without the object of obtaining information, I must, if the hon. Member persists in putting it, most reluctantly fall back on the privilege which belongs to any Member of this House, and not affect to give an answer to such a Question.
§ MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTThe Prime Minister has just informed the House that communication with General Gordon is cut off——
§ MR. ASHMEAD - BARTLETTI understood him to say that; and I beg to ask the Prime Minister, or any Member of the Government, if the communications with General Gordon are not 751 cut off, how the Government are going to fulfil the responsibility which they state they feel themselves to be under with regard to him? In view of the statement of the Prime Minister, I shall feel bound on an early occasion to call attention—I shall not do it to-night—to the abandonment of General Gordon by the Government in the only way open to me.
§ MR. GUY DAWNAYasked whether, in the event of a sufficient sum being raised by public subscription, in response to General Gordon's appeal to organize a volunteer force to proceed to his relief, Her Majesty's Government will afford all necessary facilities for the expedition? He would mention that he had already an offer of £1,000 in one sum for the purpose.
MR. GLADSTONEThe hon. Member has kindly made me aware of the practical and philanthropic view with which he puts his Question. I am very glad to receive in any way a further expression of his views if he see occasion; but, for the present, I must only say to him that, in our opinion, the safety of General Gordon, being a matter which would involve us in an obligation to consider the question in a practical view, we do not see how we could devolve that upon any volunteer effort. It appears to me that it is a matter which would devolve upon us.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURasked whether the obligation which the Government have accepted, in respect of the safety of General Gordon, extended to the garrison and the population of Khartoum?
§ MR. LABOUCHEREI would also ask whether Colonel Stewart has not reported of these people that "their political creed is to side with whichever party is strongest;" and, whether this garrison is not partly composed of troops whom Colonel Stewart, writing on April 28 last year, described as—
Plundering and harassing the population, being no better than highway robbers, and being held in universal detestation and abhorrence?
MR. GLADSTONEI must say that this latter Question of the hon. Member for Northampton (Mr. Labouchere) is a reasonable one. The Questions which have come from the other side of the House have been put with a view of obtaining some declaration from the Go- 752 vernment in favour of the interests of the garrison at Khartoum, and the Question now put from this side of the House is asked for a contrary purpose. The duty of the Government is to abide by the statements which they have already made. It is their belief that it would not be conducive to any of the interests involved if they were to go further.
§ LORD EUSTACE CECILHas the Government, in abandoning Berber, acted under military advice; and, if so, is there any objection to lay on the Table the opinions of distinguished military officers who were consulted'?
THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTONMy right hon. Friend has already stated the reason why the Government do not consider that it would be desirable to make any statement with reference to Berber. As to the advice on which the Government have acted, we have, of course, availed ourselves of the best advice which was obtainable; but I think it would be altogether without precedent and extremely inconvenient that we should undertake to make public the advice which we have received. The decision is one for which the Government is responsible; and the advice, and the grounds upon which it was given, are altogether different questions.
§ LORD EUSTACE CECILsaid, he should not have asked the Question, had it not been stated that distinguished military advice had been given that the road to Berber was open some time ago. He wished to know whether it was true that Osman Digna was now threatening Suakin with 2,000 men; and, if so, whether the Government contemplated dispersing the Arab tribes by an armed force?
THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON, in reply, said, the Government were in constant communication with Colonel Ashburnham, and they had received no information that such was the case.