APPOINTMENT AND NOMINATION OF SELECT COMMITTEE. (Hansard, 3 April 1884)

§ COLONEL NOLAN
said, it was supposed that this was a purely English Committee, to deal only with English questions. He should not have raised any question on the constitution of the Committee, if that was so; but he believed that the Committee, amongst other things, would consider the question of the amount of compensation to be paid to Turnpike Trusts on the valuation of turnpikes. That was not merely an English question, because some of the money would have to come from Irish sources, and there were many people in Ireland who took great interest in local affairs, and particularly in the question of rating. A certain sum of money was now being given to England, and no privilege was to be given to Ireland in regard to Irish rates. He had put this question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer direct; and the right hon. Gentleman had answered generally that there were a great many other things paid for in Ireland. This was a case in which an Irish Member might very well be put on the Committee, to see that these Trusts were abolished in a proper manner, and to see how Ireland was treated. He should move the omission of the name of Lord Edward Cavendish.

MR. GEORGE RUSSELL
said, he had expected this point to be raised. The fact of the matter was that he had taken the constitution of the Committee over from his Predecessor, almost exactly as it stood before, except that the hon. Member for Stafford (Mr. Salt) was unwilling to serve; and he was very glad to avail himself of the services of the hon. Member for West Norfolk (Mr. Glare Read). There was no disposition to exclude Irish Members from the Committee; but the number of the Committee had always been the same, and a wish had been expressed by the hon. Member who had always been Chairman that the number should not exceed that of former years. It was only on that account that he proposed the Committee as it now stood; and he believed the hon. and gallant Member was in error in supposing that Ireland was involved in the matter. It was a purely 1601 English subject, and the Members of the Committee were purely English.

§ MR. HEALY
said, this was now the last year of the sitting of the Committee, and, though that was so, it was really the most important year of all, because, as he understood it, it was the year in which the question of compensating those gentlemen whose rights were to be extinguished would come up for consideration. It was not an unreasonable thing to ask, seeing that the House had recognized that it was only fair that Irish Members should serve on English Committees, that an opportunity of enabling them to serve on such Committees should be given them. Irish Members were naturally anxious to servo on these Committees, in order that they might learn all about the Sister Island. Here was a Committee in connection with which a great deal of valuable information could be obtained. Some years ago a question was raised as to the personnel of these Committees and the question of nationality, and the Prime Minister admitted that the Third Party—who, they were told, were to have their numbers increased to such ail alarming extent in the future-— should be put on Committees. He thought, therefore, that they should have a Member on this Committee. He trusted that the Government, seeing that there was little contentious matter to be gone into on the Committee, would accede to the request now made, and put, an Irish Member on the Committee.

§ MR. HIBBERT
said, that, having sat on a similar Committee four years back, he might explain what it was called upon to do—although he did not wish to be understood as objecting to Irish Members being put upon such Committees. The subject to be considered by this Committee was entirely an English subject, and in no way whatever could any general question be raised. The question to be considered and reported upon was whether certain classes of roads should be disturnpiked or not, and the matter was, therefore, one only affecting certain local interests in England. Whether an Irish Member who was appointed on the Committee would not fool himself rather out of place was not for him but for the Committee to say. If he were asked whether he thought an Irish Member would to of any use on the Committee, he 1602 should certainly have to reply that he did not see how he could possibly be able to render much assistance; but, at the same time, he would not like to say that the appointment of an Irish Member would in any way interfere with the deliberations of the Committee. So far as he was personally concerned, he should not have the least objection to having an Irish Member placed on it. Hitherto these Committees had never had either Irish or Scotch Members on them. This was not the last year in which they would have to sit; in fact, he expected they would have to sit for several years to come. He had merely risen to given an explanation of the work the Committee had to do, and to say that he saw no objection to Irishmen being put on the Committee, although no advantage could possibly arise from it.

§ MR. W. REDMOND
said, it had been urged by Gentlemen on the Government Benches that it was unnecessary to have Irish Members on this Committee, on the ground that the Committee had to deal with affairs exclusively English. But had it not been often urged by Members of the Government, in justification of England interfering with Irish affairs, that Ireland and England were united in one Kingdom? Why were right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite so very reluctant to allow Irish Members to be appointed on this Committee, or to allow them to have anything at all to say in a matter which they declared to be thoroughly English? If this principle were followed out, and no English Members were appointed on Committees which referred to exclusively Irish matters, the Irish Members would be perfectly satisfied with the arrangement; but so long as English Members were appointed to take part in inquiries of an exclusively Irish character, the Irish Members were perfectly within their right in demanding to be represented on a Committee such as this. It appeared to him that the question of the appointment of this Committee had changed somewhat since last year, and that Ireland would certainly, to some extent, be interested in the result of the inquiry. He therefore thought the Irish Members were perfectly within their right, as his hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Galway (Colonel Nolan) had pointed out, in demanding that an Irish Member should 1603 be put on the Committee. The demand was a very reasonable one, and he could not see why hon. Members opposite could not accede to it.

§ MR. WARTON
said, he thought the Scotch Members who had the other day demanded so loudly to be put upon an English Committee should support the Irish Members to-day. If the House did not accede to the present demand, they would be giving the Irish Members a strong argument in favour of Home Rule. It would be a dangerous principle to lay down that Scotch and Irish Members were not to take part in English Committees; but, at the same time, he should advise any Irish Friend of his not to seek to get placed upon this particular Committee in question, for the reason that it had been sitting for some years, and he would go amongst Gentlemen who were thoroughly conversant with the subject, possessing himself no knowledge whatever about it. In order to make himself even tolerably familiar with the subject, he would have to study 70 or 80 Acts of Parliament.

§ MR. SEXTON
said, he hoped that what had fallen from the hon. Member for Wexford (Mr. W. Redmond) would fructify in the minds of the Government. To his mind, the arguments of his hon. Friends were as reasonable as it was possible to conceive any arguments could be. The work of the Committee for the present year would be to consider whether certain roads should be disturnpiked or not, and, if they were, whether the cost of the operation should come out of the rates instead of the County Fund; and, that being so, the interest of the Irish Members in the question was minimized. He should, under the circumstances, be disposed to ask his Friends not to persevere in their demand to have an Irish Member placed on the Committee. In the last year of the sitting of the Committee, however, why should not an Irish Member be appointed on it?

§ COLONEL NOLAN
said, he would not press his Motion.