§ MR. GRAYasked the Postmaster General, Whether he is aware that the litigation between the city of Dublin and the London and North Western Railway Company, by which the latter were prohibited from charging excessive rates for passengers by the mail route, was based on the existing contract, which expires on the 1st of October next; whether he is aware that the maximum rates the Railway Company is authorised to charge by Act of Parliament are practically prohibitive, and are largely in excess of those actually charged, and therefore that this general provision gives no protection to the public; whether he is aware that the passenger rates charged by the London and North Western Railway Company on their Irish Mail Service are in excess of those charged by the Scotch Limited Mail of the same Company, and the rates charged by other Companies for even faster services; whether, under these circumstances, the Government will in the hew contract provide for reasonable Railway passenger fares by the Irish Mail Service, not exceeding the mileage rate by the 1914 Scotch Limited Mail; and, in the event of the contract for the sea service being obtained by the City of Dublin Company, that they will provide that the fares between Holyhead and Dublin by the mail service shall not exceed the rates charged by the North Western Company's boats in the rival service viâ Northwall; also, whether the terms of the tender for the conveyance of the mails between Holyhead and Kingstown empowers the Government to give the contract for the conveyance of the mails temporarily to the City of Dublin Steam Packet Company, and the permanent contract to the London and North Western Railway Company, whose contract would commence at the termination of the temporary contract one or two years hence; and, if so, whether he will kindly quote that portion of the tender which provides for two contracts for the sea service with two different contractors?
§ MR. FAWCETTSir, in reply to the hon. Member, I may state that the litigation between the Dublin Steam Packet Company and the London and North-Western Railway Company was based on the existing contract. The maximum rates which the Railway Company is authorized to charge are, no doubt, considerably in excess of those actually charged. I have ascertained that the fares charged to first and second class passengers by the mail train to Holyhead exceed by about one farthing a mile those charged by the London and Northwestern Railway by the mail trains to Edinburgh and Glasgow; but the fares charged to Holyhead are less per mile than those charged by the London and South-Western Railway Company and the Great Western Company for somewhat faster trains to Exeter. I stated on Tuesday last that care would be taken, as far as possible, to secure the interests of passengers under the new contract; and a letter has accordingly been written to the London and North-Western Railway Company stating that, to whomever the sea service may be given, it would be a condition of any new contract with the Railway Company that passengers should be carried by the mail trains, that through booking arrangements should be made, and that some security should be given that the public would not be prevented from availing themselves of the mail trains in consequence of unduly 1915 high fares. The terms of the tenders which have been advertised for the conveyance of the mails between Holyhead and Kingstown provide only for a permanent service by one contractor. But as the possibility is contemplated that the City of Dublin Company, and others tendering for the service, may be able at the end of one or two years to provide better boats than those now in use, it has been deemed advisable to make arrangements, as far as possible, to provide for the service until the improved boats can be ready.
§ MR. GRAYI apologize for having to ask another Question of the right hon. Gentleman. Could he kindly state in what portion of the tender it is set forth that it is in the contemplation of the Department to enter into two separate contracts with two separate parties? There is, undoubtedly, a provision that a temporary service of an inferior kind, or not of the superior character contemplated, might be permitted for a certain period; but that the parties who were to obtain the permanent contract——
§ MR. FAWCETT, interposing, said: I think the hon. Member, on looking at the advertisement, will see that the case is very clearly stated. The case that was anticipated was this—Suppose the Dublin Company said—" At the end of two years we shall be in a position to supply more commodious and faster boats than we now have; but, of course, that will take time." The hon. Member will see that the tenders are so framed as to give the Department an opportunity of entering into a temporary arrangement with the Dublin Company or any other Company, not for an inferior service, but for a temporary service, until the new boats, by whomsoever they are supplied, should be ready.
§ MR. GRAYDo I understand, from the right hon. Gentleman's Answer, that the temporary service is not to be inferior to the present service?
§ MR. FAWCETTI should not like to give any pledge upon that point. That is a question which will have to be carefully considered. If, for instance, we could secure permanently a very much better service by having a somewhat inferior service for a very short period, it might be a question whether that should not be put up with; but I think it would be better not to say any more on that point.
§ MR. GIBSONThe point on which there is a great fear in Ireland, and which has been put by the hon. Member for Carlo w (Mr. Gray), is this—Is it contemplated that the short temporary contract for one or two years will enable the Post Office authorities to accept the use of the present boats of the London and North-Western Company?
§ MR. FAWCETTI do not think it is at all likely.
§ MR. GIBSONBut is it possible?
§ MR. FAWCETTWell, it would be possible; but I do not think it would be at all likely. I have been anxious, as far as possible, that this question should be considered in wide aspects; and our only object is to secure the best passenger service for the public, and the best mail service for the Post Office. It was desirable to contemplate the possibility that there would be other competition besides that of the North-Western and the Dublin Companies. Of course, I am not in a position to state what other parties will tender; but before the advertisement appeared I received a letter from a very leading shipowner in Liverpool, asking me to give time, so that some other persons besides the Dublin and the London and North-Western Companies should have an opportunity of tendering, and that was one reason why the last day for receiving tenders had been postponed.
MR. MACARTNEYMay I ask, if the London and North-Western Company sent in a tender offering to supply superior boats two years hence, would the Government accept for the intervening period the boats they now run to the North Wall?
§ MR. FAWCETTI think, as this as been publicly advertised and tenders have been invited, not simply from the Dublin Company and the London and North-Western Company, but from the public generally, it would be very unfair to the parties who wish to tender for me, as it were, to prejudge the case. I think some might be considered to have been taken at a disadvantage.
§ MR. GRAYMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman—["Oh!"]—this is a matter of very great interest to Ireland —may I ask if the right hon. Gentleman is aware that since the 1st of June last the North-Western Company has adopted practically the system of racing their boats against the present mail boats, and 1917 that the Directors of the Steam Packet Company have given orders that their boats should not be so raced? It would be satisfactory if the right hon. Gentleman would give an answer that the time of this racing competition shall not be taken by him into consideration in dealing with the relative merits of the two sets of boats, especially as racing in fine weather is no criterion of what the racing would be in winter weather.
§ MR. FAWCETTI do not think I can enter into that. The only power Parliament has entrusted to me is that, under the existing contract, I should see that the mails by land and sea were carried within the prescribed time, and that is all I have got to do with it.
§ MR. MITCHELL HENRYMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman to remember that the deputation which waited on the Prime Minister, at which he (Mr. Faw-cett) was present, distinctly stated that they had no desire to favour one Company more than another, and said they did not want to have an Irish Company favoured simply because it was an Irish Company?
§ MR. FAWCETTWhat I understand my hon. Friend to say is that the deputation which waited upon the Prime Minister did not wish that an Irish Company should be favoured if the result of that would be to give an inferior service, which I think was an extremely sensible observation.
§ MR. HEALYI beg, Sir, to ask the President of the Board of Trade, whether any steps will be taken to protect the lives of passengers from boiler explosions occurring through these races? I have known the funnels of the steamers sometimes to be very nearly red-hot.