HC Deb 23 July 1883 vol 282 cc250-2

(Sir Thomas Brassey, Mr.Campbell-Bannerman.)


Order for Committee read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair."—(Sir Thomas Brassey.)


asked for some information as to the actual charges thrown on the Greenwich Hospital by the payment of pensions to seamen and marines, and as to the amount of that charge which was taken from the Hospital Funds for this purpose?


said, there was some fear that these pensions would somewhat interfere with the Greenwich Schools; and he wished to ask whether this Bill would interfere with the number of beys now being educated in Greenwich Hospital for the Navy?


said, that Mr. Vaughan, the Actuary of the Admiralty, had been consulted, and his estimate, based on recent experience, showed that the maximum charge was from £18,000 to £20,000 a-year; but that sum, he believed, would not be reached for a lengthened period—some 40 years; and the charge would be fully covered by the accumulation of capital, and by a certain reduction of charges which now fell on the Hospital. In reply to the hon. Baronet, he had to say that there was no intention to reduce the number of beys in the School.


asked whether it would not be possible to place these pensions and allowances for the children of non-commissioned officers and others, on some other fund? There was a groat deal of dissatisfaction felt by many pensioners who thought they were entitled to receive pensions; and although everybedy must be anxious to establish a system of pensions for the widows and orphans of seamen and marines who died in the Service, at the same time this kind of pensions ought, he thought, to be placed on a totally different fund. The constant infringement on the Greenwich Hospital Funds created very great discontent in the Service, and on more than one occasion he had brought before the House the expediency of giving pensions to the widows of seamen and marines; and not only to them, but to men while they were in the Service; and he had pointed out that there were large amounts available to meet these charges other than the Hospital Funds. These funds were for the benefit of the Service; and it would be a very good thing to give pensions to retired seamen and marines, as well as to widows and orphans. He hoped that before the third reading of this Bill the Admiralty would consider whether they could not act a little more generously in this matter.


said, there was no intention whatever to take away from the seamen any portion of the benefits they at present enjoyed. The Admiralty had maintained the pensions as they found them on a liberal scale; and accumulations taking place every year, they were able to make a provision which he thought must be accepted as one of the most useful and benevolent applications that could possibly be made of the Greenwich Hospital Funds.

Motion agreed to.

Bill considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Clause 1 agreed to.

Committee report Progress; to sit again upon Thursday.