§ VISCOUNT FOLKESTONEasked the President of the Local Government Board, What precautions are proposed to be taken to prevent the importation of cholera by the ships carrying the Indian Mails, and other ships arriving in England through the Suez Canal, or from any Egyptian port? He would also ask, Whether the attention of the Government has been called to what appears in the "Standard" and other daily papers to-day, to the effect that, owing to the quarantine proposed to be imposed on vessels at European ports, foreigners propose to return to their homes in Europe from the East, viâ England, for the purpose of avoiding quarantine?
§ MR. STEWART MACLIVERI wish to supplement the Question by another more specific. I understand that the Indian steamer Ganges is on her way to Plymouth; and I wish to know whether any precautions have been adopted at Plymouth, with a view to the landing of passengers; and, whether Her Majesty's Customs medical officer will examine the passengers before they are landed?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKESir, with regard to the Question of the hon. 958 Member for Plymouth (Mr. Stewart Macliver), I can only say that that will depend upon whether, in the opinion of the officer, there is a possibility of choleraic infection, considering the length of her voyage. If she is last from Trieste, where I understand there is no cholera, I should think that after the long voyage from that port, no one being ill on board, he would assume that the vessel was quite free from any danger of cholera infection, and would allow the passengers to land. In answer to the Question of the noble Viscount opposite (Viscount Folkestone), I think it is desirable that I should go a little beyond the exact terms of the Question, and make the answer a general one for the satisfaction of the House. In the eighth annual Report of the Medical Officer of the Privy Council (Mr. Simon), laid before Parliament at the time, and again in 1879, the noble Lord will find a full examination of the value of quarantine as against cholera. Mr. Simon pointed out that—
A quarantine which is ineffective is a mere irrational derangement of commerce, and a quarantine of the kind which insures success is more easily imagined than realized.…Quarantine purporting to be effectual cannot rest satisfied with excluding from entry such persons as are obviously sick, but indispensably for its purpose must also refuse to admit the healthy till they shall have passed in perfectly non-infectious circumstances at least as many days of probation as the disease can have days of incubation or latency.…In 1832–3, when some sort of quarantine against cholera was adopted here, the results gave no encouragement to a repetition.…The thought of quarantine in England became more and more obsolete, and the possibility of enforcing it, if ever so much desired, fell more and more towards nothingness.…I daresay that quarantine in England was never otherwise than very lax. At all events, for many years past it has, in a medical sense, been abolished.Those views of Mr. Simon represent the present opinion of the Medical Department. Quarantine, meaning by the word a system which professes to prevent the entry into a country of persons coming from another country until assurance is attained that no infection can be introduced by those persons, is not now regarded by the English Medical Department as capable of fulfilling its pretensions; and its least failure to exclude infection is seen to make the whole system irrational, its cost and its vexations unjustifiable. Accordingly England, which long ago abandoned the system 959 as of little or no avail against cholera, has now the consent of most European nations (as expressed by their delegates to the Vienna Conference of 1874) in preferring for the defence of her ports another system, which, under the name of "medical inspection," aims at obtaining the seclusion of actually infected persons, and the disinfection of ships and of articles that may have received infection from the sick. The details are set out in an Order of the Local Government Board, issued in 1873, and now in force, but which has just been renewed, with some slight amendment of details, and which will be presented to the House. In the present Order, and in that of 1873, provision is made for the detention of ships at appointed places, for the visiting and medical examination of ships and passengers, for the removal to hospital of persons suffering from suspected cholera, and for their detention, for the destruction of clothing or bedding, and even parts of ships infected, and for the purification of ships. I believe that since this Order was issued in 1873, this country has been thoroughly prepared against a possible invasion of cholera. As to mail steamers coming from India through the Suez Canal in quarantine, and not touching at any infected port, they would not be inspected by us. Steamers coming direct from Alexandria, when there has been one reported case of cholera, would, owing to the length of the voyage, though they are fast ships, also seem to be safe enough, if no sickness has shown itself on board during the voyage.
§ MR. O'DONNELLMay I ask, is it not the fact that the form of quarantine which consists of isolating actual cases of disease or suspected cases of sickness, and imposing the destruction, together with fumigation and disinfection, of infected materials, has been condemned under the name of "quarantine," but is approved of when it takes the name of "medical inspection;" and, whether it is the fact that those European Governments which are said to have agreed with the British Government as to this system at the Vienna Conference are now imposing quarantine on all vessels arriving in their ports from the East?
§ VISCOUNT FOLKESTONEasked the President of the Local Government Board, whether he did not think it 960 advisable to send down instructions to the Inspectors at the ports to be very careful in regard to the inspection of vessels arriving from the East to examine passengers?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEI think the object of the noble Viscount will be attained by the fact that we intend issuing a new Order on the subject, which, as I mentioned, is being done during the present week. It is substantially the old Order with a few changes; but it will serve to call their attention again to the importance of exercising great care. With regard to the Question of the hon. Member opposite (Mr. O'Donnell), there is a great distinction to be drawn between the old quarantine and the "medical inspection" I have described to the House. The old system of quarantine never could be enforced under ordinary conditions in this country; it could only be enforced on islands like Cyprus and Malta, with a limited trade. The idea of quarantine was to exclude all persons coming from an infected place, until they had gone through a period of isolation equal to the period of the latency of the disease. Therefore, suppose there was cholera anywhere on the Continent, you would have to prevent people crossing from Calais entering the country for 10 days. It would be impossible to work such an absolute quarantine system; but the system of medical inspection which I have described is a very different and a bettor one. As to whether other European Governments which agreed to the medical inspection system were not imposing quarantine, I can only say that I do not know that any of those Governments are doing so.
§ MR. O'DONNELLasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether it is true that, at the meeting of the Alexandria Board of Health, on the 14th May, while deaths from cholera at the rate of many hundreds a week were occurring in Bombay and vicinity, the English delegate, acting on instructions from Lord Granville, protested against action being taken with reference to subjecting vessels from Bombay to quarantine, in order to prevent injury to the interests of commerce; whether, accordingly, arrivals from Bombay continued to be free from quarantine; whether, at the same time, the 961 Dutch Authorities at Java informed the Alexandria Board of Health that cholera was prevalent at Java, and arrivals from Java in Egypt were accordingly submitted to the requisite supervision; and, whether it is true, as stated in the Egyptian "Official Journal," by Dr. Flood, of Port Said, that an Arab passenger from Bombay, in the steamship "Timour," landed at Port Said on the 18th June without being submitted to any quarantine regulations, and proceeded to Damietta a couple of days previous to the outbreak of cholera?
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICESir, it is not true that deaths from cholera at the rate of many hundreds a-week were occurring in Bombay and vicinity in May last. At the meeting of the Egyptian Maritime, Sanitary, and Quarantine Board, held on the 14th of May last, a resolution was passed by which arrivals from Bombay were subjected to quarantine. The British Delegate voted against this resolution, on the ground that the Bombay medical officers declared that cholera was not epidemic, and returned the number of deaths at 28 in a week. On this occasion Mr. Miéville acted on his own opinion in the matter, and not on instructions from Lord Granville. The quarantine so established continued till June 27, five days after the first outbreak of cholera, when it expired without any interference on the part of Her Majesty's Government. On the 19th of June intelligence was received by the Netherlands Consul General at Alexandria, that cholera had been epidemic at Padang (Sumatra) since the 14th, and the same day the Board's regulations against cholera were ordered to be applied to arrivals from that locality. No information has been received as to a notification relative to cholera in Java; but, subsequently to this date, the Constantinople Board of Health decided to place pilgrims to Arabia from Java in quarantine, on account of the prevalence of cholera at Padang. As regards the last part of the hon. Member's Question, no information has been received; but, at Sir Edward Malet's suggestion, inquiry has already been made.
§ MR. O'DONNELLI would ask the noble Lord, if he will inquire how it is that yesterday his hon. Colleague the Under Secretary of State for India contradicted what the noble Lord has him- 962 self now stated? The hon. Gentleman admitted that there were hundreds of cases of death from cholera occurring in a single week in the neighbourhood of Bombay?
§ MR. J. K. CROSSI never said anything at all of the kind. I simply said, in reply to a Question, that the hon. Member was right in his assumption that several hundred deaths had occurred in the Collectorates of Thana and Poona; and if the hon. Member is of opinion that those places are in the immediate vicinity of Bombay, I cannot agree with him.
§ MR. O'DONNELLThe words "immediate vicinity" are a combination of the hon. Member's own. I used the word "vicinity" in the Question.
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICEI am aware the word in the Question was "vicinity," and I used it in the ordinary English acceptation of the term.
§ MR. MACFARLANEI wish to ask the noble Lord, is it not the fact that from the month of April to the month of September cholera is usually prevalent in Bombay and Calcutta; and, if quarantine is always to be established at the Suez Canal because of it, and ships detained there 12 days, the Canal, instead of being doubled, had not better be shut up?
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICEI agree that, in these circumstances, the Suez Canal would be rendered practically useless.
§ MR. O'DONNELLasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether cholera has broken out at Menzaleh and Tantah among fugitives from Damietta; whether the towns already affected by cholera contain a population of more than 300,000, and what is the number of troops and police at the disposal of the Egyptian Government for the complete isolation of so large a multitude; whether Her Majesty's Government have been notified by Ismail Hamdy Pasha that the Egyptian Government possess no adequate means of dealing with the infected population; whether upwards of 200 persons have been brought in from the country round Alexandria and confined in the lazaretto at Mekx on suspicion of being fugitives from cholera centres; and, whether Her Majesty's Government will advise the recall of the Egyptian troops 963 from the Soudan or the employment of the British Army of occupation for the purpose of restraining the spread of the disease?
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICEYes, Sir; it is unfortunately true, as I stated yesterday, that cholera has broken out at Menzalah. I have not heard whether any cases have occurred at Tantah. It does not appear whether or not the outbreak of cholera at Menzalah and other localities has been occasioned by fugitives from Damietta; but a Report on the outbreak of cholera in Egypt, from Mr. Miéville, British Delegate to the Egyptian Marine, Sanitary, and Quarantine Board, is on its way to this country, and will be presented to Parliament as soon as it is received. I cannot inform the hon. Member of the exact population of the infected district nor of the exact number of police and troops at the disposal of the Egyptian Government for the isolation of the infected districts. Her Majesty's Government have not been notified by Ismail Hamdy Pasha, that the Egyptian Government possesses no adequate means of dealing with the infected population. I have no information as to the number of persons brought in from the surrounding country and confined at Mekx: it is possible that Mr. Miéville's expected Report may contain these details. Her Majesty's Government will not advise the recall of the Egyptian troops from the Soudan, and have not directed the employment of the British Army of Occupation for the purpose of restraining the spread of the disease. They attach more importance to sanitary precautions than to cordons of soldiers and police.
§ MR. O'DONNELLasked, whether the attention of the noble Lord had been directed to the statement of a newspaper correspondent, to the effect that, according to reports from Damietta, the streets of that place were almost entirely deserted; whether the ordinary population of the town was 40,000, and where had that population gone; and, had they spread infection over the country in spite of cordon sanitaires?
§ SIR WALTER B. BARTTELOTasked, whether the attention of the noble Lord had been directed to the following telegram, which had appeared in The Times of that morning from their Alexandria Correspondent:—
§ "Alexandria, July 9.
§ "I have received the following from Dr. Mackie, which I send without comment:—'There was one death from cholera yesterday evening, that of a European adult male. He had been formerly in good health, and had not been in an infected district, nor in contact with any infected persons, so far as he knew. The sanitary sub-commission have made a visit of inspection to the slaughter-houses, from which all meat is supplied to Alexandria and the troops. They found them in a most filthy state, without proper means of flushing or cleansing. These slaughter-houses are the monopoly of a European company, but are under the local sanitary inspection. Acres of ground around them are full of unburied and half-buried débris, entrails, and carcasses exhaling a most offensive odour. The animals are slaughtered and dressed in rooms with open drains smelling abominably. The establishment is within a short distance of Ramleh, where are the barracks of the 46th Regiment. I am of opinion that it constitutes a source of danger to them when westerly winds prevail, or on calm nights. The 46th Regiment has 116 sick, out of a total of 862?'"
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICEsaid, he must ask the hon. Members to give Notice of the Questions to the Secretary of State for War.
§ SIR WALTER B. BARTTELOTsaid, he thought that the condition of the slaughter-houses at Alexandria might be regarded as coming within the jurisdiction of the Foreign Office.
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICEsaid, he must repeat that the hon. and gallant Baronet had better give Notice of his Question to his noble Friend the Secretary of State for War.
§ MR. O'DONNELLsaid, he would, at the same time, ask whether, notwithstanding the condition of things described, it was not the case that the official bills of health of Alexandria stated that the sanitary condition of the town and district was extremely good?
§ MR. ECROYDI wish to ask the noble Lord, whether the Government have received any information as to the truth of the report in the morning newspapers, that there has been a serious outbreak of cholera in China?
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICENo, Sir; we have no information on the subject.
§ MR. MACFARLANEgave Notice that when the President of the Local Board answered the Question as to the mails from India, he would ask If, during the prevalence of cholera in Egypt, and the consequent difficulty of bringing the Indian Mails through Italy, it is in- 965 tended to carry the Mails through the Suez Canal in the vessels which bring them from India, instead of sending them by rail to Alexandria and from thence by another vessel?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEasked the hon. Member to address his Question to the Postmaster General. He believed that one ship a fortnight always came through that way.