§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNORasked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, If the establishment of Constabulary credited to the Queen's County has been below the proper establishment by 4 in January 1882; 7 in February; 8 in March, April, May, and June; 12 in July; 10 in August; 8 in September, October, and November; and 9 in December; and a sum of £1,055 17s. 6d. has been charged to that county at large for extra Constabulary, besides a sum of £20 3s. 7d. on account of additional Constabulary in districts proclaimed under the 18th section of "The Prevention of Crime (Ireland) Act, 1882;" and, whether he will take steps to see that the amount which represents the vacancies shall be re-credited to the county?
§ MR. TREVELYANSir, the number of men of the Parliamentary quota of Constabulary for Queen's County actually serving at the time stated was less by the numbers mentioned than the full number authorized to be employed as the ordinary force of the county. It is obvious that the effective strength of 733 any trained and disciplined force must always be less than the full authorized number of such force by the number in training at the depôt to supply the waste to which every force is subject. It is, therefore, not correct to describe the force of a county as below the proper establishment when the full number authorized to be enrolled for such county is not effective. Recognizing these facts, provision has been made by Section 14 of 29 & 30 Vict., c. 103, that when, as in the case of Queen's County, an extra force is employed, the vacancies shall be apportioned rateably between the Parliamentary quota and the extra force, and the proportion of vacancies proper to the latter deducted when making the charge against the county. This provision has been fully acted on in preparing the charge of £10,055 payable by the Queen's County; and the necessary information showing that this has been done was duly forwarded to the Secretary of the Grand Jury for the information of the ratepayers at Presentment Sessions. Any further allowance in respect of the vacancies proper to that portion of the force for which no charge is made would be illegal.
§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNORasked, whether it was not a fact that by reason of these vacancies there would be a saving in the Constabulary to the Imperial Exchequer, while there would be an extra charge for police to the Queen's County?
§ COLONEL KING-HARMANasked, if the force of men in training at the depot was divided pro rata amongst all the counties?
§ MR. TREVELYANThe story is an old one—familiar, I think, to a good many Members of the House—that the force divided rateably between the ordinary and the extraordinary force, and the part allotted to the extraordinary force, is deducted from the sum which the county has to pay.
§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNORWill the right hon. Gentleman answer my Question?
§ MR. TREVELYANIf the men were not at depôt, but were always permanently in the county, the number of extra police employed would be so much less; but that is not a system authorized by law.
§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNORI will ask the right hon. Gentleman whether 734 it is the fact, honestly and straightforwardly speaking, that these vacancies are caused by men being in the depôt, and are not absolute vacancies in the force?
§ MR. O'KELLYwas understood to ask whether it did not happen that under the system as explained by the right hon. Gentleman two or three counties had to pay for the same numbers?
§ MR. TREVELYANsaid, he would answer the Question if Notice were given. He should be unwilling to answer it without Notice, because the number at the depôt was sometimes larger and sometimes smaller than the regulation.
§ COLONEL NOLANasked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, If the establishment of Constabulary credited to the county of Galway has been below the actual establishment of the county by 46 men in January 1882; 47 men in February; 47 men in March; 42 men in April; 42 men in May; 51 men in June; 55 men in July; 48 men in August; and 34 men in September; if £14,783 has been charged to that county for extra Constabulary in 1882; and, would he take steps to see that the two or three thousand pounds which have been charged to the county by a system of accounts in which credit has not been given for the full Constabulary establishment, would be re-credited to the treasurer of the county?
§ MR. TREVELYANSir, I have fully explained this matter in answer to the hon. Member for the Queen's County (Mr. Arthur O'Connor). The charge upon the county of Galway for extra police has been made strictly in accordance with the Acts of Parliament; and the necessary details in support of the charge have been forwarded to the local authorities for the information of the ratepayers.