HC Deb 06 August 1883 vol 282 cc1633-6
MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON

asked the Vice President of the Council, Whether it is true that the Education Department have sanctioned the action of school managers in refusing children admission to school because their parents refuse to allow them to do home lessons; and, if so, whether he will state under what authority the Education Department or school managers are entitled to enforce a system of home lessons, in addition to their school attendance, during the hours fixed by Act of Parliament?

MR. MUNDELLA

Where school managers have required that reasonable home lessons shall be learnt by children in a good state of health, the Education Department has always supported them in maintaining their Rules, and preserving the discipline of their schools. We do not think it necessary, or desirable, that the Department should lay down hard-and-fast Rules controlling the discretion of managers in the conduct of their schools. Under Article 89 of the Code; no child can be refused admission on other than reasonable grounds.

MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON

Against the will of the parents? Are these lessons insisted on against the will of the parents?

MR. MUNDELLA

If the parent is not satisfied with the school he would send his child to some other, where there are no home lessons. We do not find that parents object. It is other persons who object to education, not the parents.

MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON

In consequence of the answer I have received, I will ask to-morrow whether the letter written to this effect by Mr. F. E. Palgrave to the parents of the boy— My Lords consider that the refusal to admit the boy Shackelton is justifiable, until his parents undertake that he shall do home lessons. was written with the right hon. Gentleman's knowledge and consent?

MR. MUNDELLA

Yes, Sir; that letter was written by the Assistant Secretary to the Department with my knowledge and consent.

MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON

asked the Vice President of the Council, If he can state on the authority of the Commissioners in Lunacy, whether it is a fact that while there has not been any material increase of brain disease and lunacy in proportion to the population generally during the last ten years, there has been a material increase of such diseases among the children of school age and the teachers in schools?

MR. MUNDELLA

I inquired of the Lunacy Commissioners whether they could throw any light on the Questions of the hon. Gentleman. They reply that children sent to asylums are usually idiots, and that it is only occasionally an insane child is met with. The number of children under 15 admitted, so far from increasing of late years, has fallen from 306 in 1876 to 286 in 1882, notwithstanding an increase of about 2,500,000 to the population in the interval. So far as the teachers are concerned, the Commissioners refer me to the Report of last year, which states that of the group described as teachers, schoolmasters, schoolmistresses, governesses, professors, and lecturers—out of 127,140 persons classed under this head in 1871, 154 only were committed to asylums in 1881. This is a lower proportion than in almost any other Profession. The Clergy, the Legal and Medical Professions, the Army and Navy, Civil Engineers, and others, all show a much higher average. Out of 746 teachers applying to the Education Department for pensions since 1875, incapacitated from continuing their Profession, 24 only are returned as suffering from brain affections in any form. I may be allowed to correct a mis-report of a statement I made on the authority of the Registrar General — namely, that the death-rate of children between five and 15 years of age had fallen fully 19 per cent since 1870, and that the deaths from brain diseases was 0.5 per 1,000, and not 5 per 1,000, as reported.

MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON

asked whether the Chairman of the Lunacy Commissioners, the Earl of Shaftesbury, agreed with that statement?

MR. MUNDELLA

said, he was quoting from the Secretary of the Commissioners. The hon. Member would find the Report from which he quoted in the Library.

MR. DONALDSON-HUDSON

asked the Vice President of the Council, Whether he will consider the expediency of making such modification in the New Code as will admit of a percentage of the children in any school being excused examination, without diminishing the grant to the whole class, in cases where some of the children are naturally incapable, and where it is injurious to their health to be pressed forward for examination?

MR. MUNDELLA

The Code, as it stands, is more fair and more liberal than the proposal of the hon. Member, as it allows managers to withhold from examination any number of scholars for whom a reasonable excuse can be established. If a fixed percentage were laid down it would imply equal conditions in all schools, and might in some schools prove too high; while in others, where the circumstances were specially unfavourable, it would fall short of what might legitimately be claimed. If the hon. Member will refer to our Circular of August 9, 1882, and to one which I have to-day laid upon the Table, he will, I think, find that the instructions to Her Majesty's Inspectors, as to the scholars who may be withheld from examination, provide all that is reasonable and just both to teachers and children.