HC Deb 10 November 1882 vol 274 cc1203-5
MR. MOLLOY

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether the several charges upon which Arabi Pacha is to be tried were officially or unofficially, directly or indirectly, submitted to the Government before their promulgation; and, if so, whether they were approved by the Government or on its behalf?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

I have to say on behalf of the Prime Minister that Her Majesty's Government had no knowledge of the charges brought against Arabi Pasha until they received from Sir Edward Malet the telegram giving a summary of them, which I have already read in the House. No opinion whatever has been expressed with regard to them.

MR. MOLLOY

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether, having regard to the fact that Arabi Pasha was a prisoner of war of the English Forces in Egypt, and was transferred by our Military authorities to the Khedival authority, the Government will object to the infliction of any pain or penalty upon Arabi Pacha unless the same shall be the result of a proper trial?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

I have already stated the circumstances under which Arabi Pasha was captured. We have insisted on conditions intended to secure a fair trial.

MR. MOLLOY

said, that in consequence of the incomplete and unsatisfactory reply he had received, he would repeat the Question on Monday.

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

I am not aware that I have failed to answer any part of the Question. Without going into the accuracy of the terms used in its preamble, which I thought was unnecessary and should be inclined to dispute, I answered that I have already stated the circumstances of the surrender, and that we have taken steps and insisted on conditions calculated to secure a proper and fair trial.

MR. MOLLOY

In the event of his not getting a fair trial, what then?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

We have insisted upon a fair trial. The other Question is wholly hypothetical.

MR. GLADSTONE

In addition to the answer of my hon. Friend near me, I wish to state in the most explicit terms that the Question of the hon. Member invites us to assume that the Egyptian Government, from which we have no reason to withdraw our confidence, will be cognizant of, and use its authority for, improper purposes. We do not believe any such thing is likely, and we will not consent to threaten a Government, which is a friendly Government, and entitled to our confidence.

LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL

I wish to ask whether, if the Egyptian Government is going to try Arabi Pasha under a Code or Law which is not known to Egypt or to any civilized community, it has not forfeited the confidence of Her Majesty's Government?

MR. GLADSTONE

The Egyptian Government is performing no act within our knowledge which tends to lead us to withdraw our confidence from it.

MR. O'DONNELL

If the Egyptian Court Martial sentences Arabi to death, will British soldiers be asked to supply the gallows' guard?

MR. GLADSTONE

I am astonished, I must say, notwithstanding the licence which prevails in that quarter, and which the hon. Member has enlarged, that he should put such a Question to me. Arabi is undergoing a trial under a Code of rules which we trust, and believe, will secure him justice. [Loud Cries of "No ! "from below the Gangway on the Opposition side.] I must say, Sir, that the licence assumed in that quarter of the House is a very remarkable licence, and does not constitute an improvement in our course of procedure. I should presume, in this case, as in every other case of judicial investigation, that the sentence which may be pronounced on the prisoner of condemnation or acquittal, is likely to depend upon what may or may not be proved against him.