HC Deb 06 November 1882 vol 274 cc863-5
MR. ARTHUR ARNOLD

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury a Question of which I have given him private Notice. It is, Whether Sir Charles Rivers Wilson still holds the office of Comptroller-General of the National Debt; and, if so, whether the Lords of the Treasury approve of the exhibition of his name in all the journals of the Kingdom inviting the public to purchase $2,000,000 of bonds in the Eagle Pass and Air Line Railway of Texas, together with the announcement that the money is to be paid to his bankers, at his offices in the City, and to be expended upon the certificates of his engineer? I should have given longer Notice of this Question did not this extraordinary invitation close on Thursday next.

MR. GLADSTONE

My hon. Friend was kind enough to send me a note this forenoon, saying that he would put a Question on this subject; and I have taken advantage of the interval to ascertain the facts of the case. When he asks me whether Sir Charles Rivers Wilson continues to be Comptroller General of the National Debt, I must say that he does, and for the interests of the Office I have every reason to desire that he should continue to be, for he is a very efficient public officer. But that is no answer to my hon. Friend. My hon. Friend knows the general rules which prevail in the Public Service; but I must also prefix to my answer that this is a case in which I myself, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, am specially responsible; because the National Debt Office is, in strictness, more under the Chancellor of the Exchequer than under the Treasury. Sir Charles Rivers Wilson is the Trustee of the Association, of the objects of which I am totally and absolutely ignorant; but with respect to which he assures me of these two things—and I give to them the most implicit credence—first, that the duties of a Trustee, which I apprehend are different from those of a Director of the Institution, will in no way interfere with the efficient discharge of any of his duties as Comptroller General of the National Debt Office; and, secondly, that he certainly thought it his duty to satisfy himself, before assuming them, that the undertaking is one of a sound and solvent character. In my answer to the hon. Member I confined myself strictly to the dry facts of the case.

MR. J. G. HUBBARD

I beg to give Notice that on Thursday I will ask the Prime Minister, Whether, in his opinion, it is consonant with the rules of the Public Service, and consistent with the interests of the Public Service, that high officials, especially in financial positions, should become Trustees and guarantors of what appears to me to be a speculative undertaking? But, whether speculative or not, I beg to call attention to the fact that this scheme is mentioned in all the papers, and the public are advised to give entire confidence to it, seeing the high personal character of the two Trustees, Lord Sherbrooke and Sir Charles Rivers Wilson, who were personally responsible.

MR. GLADSTONE

I have stated before, and I repeat, that I confined myself in my answer to the dry facts of the case. I may add, however, that my right hon. Friend has used the expression "guarantors." These gentlemen are Trustees, and they do not give any guarantee in the matter.

MR. ARTHUR ARNOLD

said, that if he could find an opportunity on going into Committee of Supply he would call attention to the circumstances, and should move— That, in the opinion of this House, the acceptance of such an appointment by a Government official connected with the Public Debt was in the highest degree improper and reprehensible.

SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL

asked the Prime Minister, If the House was to understand that he had given any opinion or sanction as to the employment of Sir Rivers Wilson on this Company; or whether they were only to understand that he had received from that gentleman an explanation on the matter of fact?

MR. GLADSTONE

I thought it would be quite clear from my former answer that I had no knowledge whatever of this transaction, in any shape or form, until I received Notice of the Question of my hon. Friend, and I received that note and gave the dry facts which I have laid before the House.