§ MR. BOURKEasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Has any reparation been demanded for the losses and injuries sustained by British subjects in the late disturbances in Egypt; and, if so, from whom; and, whether Papers cannot be now presented relating to the mission of Dervish Pacha, and the proceedings consequent thereupon?
§ MR. SLAGGBefore the hon. Baronet answers that Question, I should like to ask another which relates to the same subject. It is, Whether he can give any information as to what steps, if any, have been taken by Her Majesty's Government in regard to the protection of the property of two citizens of Manchester—Mr. Dobson and Mr. Richardson.—who lost their lives in the recent disturbances at Alexandria? I should like also to refer the hon. Baronet, if the House will permit me, to an important telegram sent to me this morning from Alexandria. I may say that I have been waited upon by an influential deputation of merchants largely interested in British commerce in Egypt. They have laid before me telegrams which really describe a dreadful state of things in Alexandria. The telegram is to this effect, and addressed to a friend 1256 of mine, who is possessed of ships in Alexandria—
The Consul asks urgently, and for reasons of humanity, can you obtain permission from buyers of steamships to allow more than two voyages to Cyprus with fugitives? Do your utmost to arrange this matter, and obtain leave for more voyages if possible.It seems from the report my friend brings me that the people are leaving Alexandria in large numbers. Another friend has a telegram to the effect that European life and property are no longer safe.
§ MR. O'DONNELLSir,—
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKESir, I do not think it is desirable to allow Questions to be interpolated with other Questions. It is not fair to other Members who are waiting to put their Questions. The Question on the Paper to which I will reply is that of my right hon. Friend Mr. Bourke. I may say that no claims have yet been presented. As soon as any such are received they will be referred in the usual manner to the Law Officers of the Crown. The Papers relating to the mission of Dervish Pasha cannot be detached from the rest of the Papers, which will be brought out as speedily as possible. With regard to the promise I made yesterday to the junior Member for Manchester (Mr. Jacob Bright), the Colleague of my hon. Friend (Mr. Slagg), I may say that we have received from the British Consul and Admiral at Alexandria a list of the British subjects reported killed. The list substantially agrees with that which has been published in the papers already, although there is one name published which does not appear in our list. With regard to the Question put by my hon. Friend (Mr. Slagg), I may say that a telegram has been received from Mr. Cookson, to the effect that steps have been taken to look after the private effects of Messrs. Dobson and Richardson. With regard to the other Question—although I must apologize for interpolating an answer—as it has been asked I will answer it. A vessel from Port Said has been ordered to Alexandria for the reception of fugitives, and two other private ships have also been made available for persons who wished to go on board—providing, of course, they are persons whose means are such that they cannot reasonably be expected to pay for their passages. The 1257 first vessel was taken up by the Admiral to convey persons to Malta. I have no knowledge with regard to the other two ships. There appear to he about 300 British subjects in Alexandria who desire to quit at the present time. The total European population of Egypt is, of course, very large indeed. There are about 30,(00 Greeks, 15.000 French. 15,000 Italians, and 4,000 British (including Maltese), and 4,000 Austrian and German subjects.
§ SIR JOHN HAYI wish to ask the hon. Baronet whether it is true that we have been afraid to bury persons who were Europeans in the cemetery at Alexandria, and that Her Majesty's Ship Superb has been used as a hearse to take the bodies to sea?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKENotice has been given that a Question like this will be put to-morrow, and I should prefer to answer then.
§ MR. BOURKEAre we to understand that the Papers relating to Dervish Pasha will be among the second batch of Papers that are promised?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEThe most important Papers are being hurried on, which relate to what has taken place up to the middle of May. The other Papers are being prepared as rapidly as possible, and it would be extremely inconvenient to lay a later Paper on the Table before an earlier one.
§ SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTEWhen are we likely to get any of these Papers?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEI cannot give any promise; but the further Papers are being got ready as rapidly as possible. They are not yet in the condition of the first revise, but the second batch will be ready next week. The right hon. Gentleman must know that there never has been a case in which important Papers were brought out with such rapidity as in this case. ["Oh, oh!"] This is so, and it will be impossible, if you search the whole records of the Foreign Office, to find out Papers that have been presented with such rapidity.
§ SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFFWill these Papers refer to matters up to the 17th of April?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKETo the middle of May.
§ BARON HENRY DE WORMSI should like to ask whether the rumour 1258 has reached the hon. Baronet that the Eastern Telegraph Company had been obliged to close its doors at Cairo?
§ MR. ONSLOWMay I also ask whether it is the intention of the Government, considering that these difficulties have arisen owing to the action of Her Majesty's Government, that those persons who can afford to pay for their passage are really to pay, or whether the Government do not intend to give a free passage to all, and also to victual them?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEUp to the present Sir Edward Malet has not called upon British subjects to leave the country, nor have any other foreign Consuls called upon their fellow-subjects to do so.
§ MR. O'KELLYI should like to ask whether it is true that the Khedive has called on the Sultan for 18,000 or any other number of Turkish troops? ["Order!"]
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEI think the opinion of the House is that that Question should not be answered without Notice.
§ MR. J. LOWTHERPerhaps the hon. Baronet is now able to answer the Question of which I gave him Notice yesterday. It is, Whether Arabi Pasha was present at the conference which took place between Dervish Pasha and the Khedive; and, further, whether, in the Report which was made by the representatives of the Government in the first instance, it was not stated that Arabi was present?
§ MR. LABOUCHEREOn the same subject I would like to ask whether the hon. Gentleman would state whether the Vice Consul or any representative of Her Majesty's Government remains at Cairo—whether in that case Her Majesty's representative is in communication with Arabi, and whether he regards him as a traitor to his Sovereign, or a Minister of his Sovereign? [Cries of "Order!"]
§ MR. SPEAKERI think it is right to point out that in Questions of a grave character such as these the hon. Baronet is entitled to ask that Notice should be given, and also, if he thinks proper, to decline to answer on public grounds. Having made this observation, I do not think it my duty to interpose as regards the Question which has just been put.
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKESir,—
§ MR. HEALYI rise to Order. I should like to observe that the hon. Baronet stated just before that he could not answer a Question which had been put from the Irish Benches because the feeling of the House seemed to be against an answer being given. As soon, however, as Questions were put from the Liberal and Conservative Benches, the hon. Baronet was ready enough to answer.
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEIt is impossible that the hon. Member should know what I am about to say. I rose for the purpose of answering the right hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. J. Lowther), as his Question seemed to grow out of the the Question on the Paper. I was going to decline to reply to the hon. Member for Northampton (Mr. Labouchere), because his Question does not seem to grow out of the one on the Paper. As regards the right hon. Gentleman's Question, it would have been better if it had been on the Paper, so that an answer might have been given to it in the ordinary way. The meeting which took place between the European Consuls was a meeting between the Representatives of Germany, Austria, Italy, Russia, France, and England. There were present at that meeting the Khedive, Dervish Pasha, and the whole of his suite from Constantinople, and Arabi Pasha also. The object of that meeting was to receive an answer to a demand that had been made on Dervish Pasha by the Representatives of the Powers in regard to steps which should be satisfactory to the Great Powers to insure the safety of Europeans in Egypt. Dervish Pasha stated that Arabi had informed him that he would implicitly obey the orders given by the Khedive. The Khedive immediately issued orders for restoring the public tranquillity. These are the words to which I alluded yesterday—
Dervish Pasha said that under the urgent circumstances of the case ho would assume joint responsibility with Arabi Pasha for the execution of the orders of the Khedive.The European Consuls then said that the danger to the security of Europeans took precedence over all other questions for the moment, and that the political situation did not enter into the discussion. They also said to the Khedive and the Imperial Commissioners that 1260 they thought the discussion that had taken place with regard to the Europeans had nothing to do with the objects of Dervish Pasha's mission in Egypt. That meeting was on Monday.
§ MR. ONSLOWThen why has the Khedive gone to Alexandria?
§ MR. J. LOWTHERThe hon. Baronet has not noticed my second Question—Whether in the Report made by the British representatives in Egypt to Her Majesty's Government, it was stated that Arabi Pasha was present at the meeting just described?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEYes, Sir, it was so stated. It is a detailed Report, but I have just given the substance to the House.
§ MR. O'DONNELLWith reference to the measures taken for the preservation of peace in Alexandria, I wish to ask if any steps have been taken towards bringing to justice the Europeans who are reported to have commenced the disturbances by stabbing Arabs?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEThat Question does not seem to grow out of the one on the Paper, and I am unable to give the House any information on the subject, because I think any information I give should be of a well-founded character.