HC Deb 20 July 1882 vol 272 cc1083-6
MR. BOURKE

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether an agreement has been arrived at with any Foreign Power with respect to the protection of the Suez Canal; if so, what are the terms of such agreement or convention; whether it is true that the French Government desire to provoke a deliberation of the Conference with regard to the Suez Canal; whether an agreement in that sense has been concluded with the British Cabinet; whether Her Majesty's Government still intend that the deliberation of the Conference shall be limited to the Egyptian Question, and will not extend to the Suez Canal, and that the whole subject of the neutralization and control of the Canal is a matter that shall never be referred to the Conference; and, whether it appears to Her Majesty's Government to be wholly outside of the purpose of the Conference?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

This Question, Sir, appeared on the Paper on Tuesday; but it was not asked, in consequence of the adjournment of the debate being moved. Though it will not be in my power to answer, after the appeal of my right hon. Friend, any further Questions growing out of this matter, which will be debated on Monday. I think it is, perhaps, desirable to answer this Question now. Her Majesty's Government took naval measures for the protection of the Suez Canal, as has been frequently stated in this House. At the meeting of the Conference on the 27th of June, a reservation as to force majeure appended by the English and French Ambassadors to the declaration against isolated action was added for the purpose of leaving perfect liberty of action to their respective Governments in the presence of any emergency whatever, including danger to the Suez Canal; and on the 28th of June Lord Dufferin was instructed to mention to his colleagues the object with which the reservations had been added. On the 17th of July the following communication was made by England and France to the Powers:— Our proposals respecting the restoration of order in Egypt are already before the Conference. The security of the Suez Canal, although connected with that subject, is a separate question, and is not equally embarrassed by political considerations. Setting aside any question which might arise as to the possible duty of any of the Powers individually, if sudden and grave danger should arise in the absence of any provision for united action, Her Majesty's Government think it desirable that any action to be taken should receive the sanction of Europe, and, if practicable, of Turkey. France and England propose, in consequence, to the Conference to designate the Powers, who should be charged, in case of need, to take the measures specially necessary for the protection of the canal. In order to save time, the Powers so designated, and who should have accepted the mandat, should be authorized to decide on the mode and the moment of action. This action would he exercised in every case on the principle of the self-denying protocol.

MR. BOURKE

But no agreement has been come to between France and England, I understand.

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

This is a declaration to the Powers in the name of Franco and England.

MR. O'DONNELL

Have Her Majesty's Government any guarantee that the arrangements out of which that declaration grew with the Do Freycinet Cabinet will be maintained by any French Ministry which succeeds the Cabinet of M. De Freycinet, who has resigned?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

After the appeal of my right hon. Friend, I certainly must decline to answer that Question.

MR. BOURKE

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether he can state the terms of the joint Note lately presented to the Porte with respect to Turkish intervention in Egypt; and, when an answer is expected?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

Yes, Sir, it is as follows:— Impressed with the necessity of applying a prompt remedy for the troubled state of Egypt and of restoring confidence in that country, the great Powers, assembled in Conference, have decided to appeal to the sovereignty of His Imperial Majesty the Sultan by inviting him to intervene in Egypt, and assist the Khedive by sending forces sufficient to re-establish order, put down the usurping faction, and put an end to that state of anarchy which is desolating the country, has led to the effusion of blood, the ruin and the flight of thousands of European and Mussulman families, and compromised at once national and foreign interests. While assuring by their presence respect for the rights of the Empire, and the re-establishment of the Khedivial authority, the Imperial forces will allow, at the same time, according to the method to be determined hereafter by common consent, of the adoption of wise reforms in the military organization of Egypt, without prejudicing by their intervention the prudent development of the civil, administrative, and judicial institutions of Egypt, so as not to conflict with the Imperial firman. In addressing themselves to His Majesty, the great Powers of Europe have full confidence that during the sojourn of the Ottoman troops in Egypt the normal status guo will be maintained, and that there will be no interference with the immunities and privileges of Egypt guaranteed by previous firmans, or with the regular working of the administration, or with the international engagements and the arrangements which result from them. The sojourn in Egypt of the Imperial troops, the commanders of which will have to act in concert with the Khedive, will be limited to a period of three months, unless the Khedive should ask for its prolongation for an additional term, to be fixed by agreement with Turkey and the Powers. The expenses of the occupation will be defrayed by Egypt, and the amount will be determined by agreement between the six Powers, Turkey, and Egypt. If, as they hope, His Imperial Majesty the Sultan responds to the call made to him by the great Powers, the application of the clauses and conditions above enumerated will form the subject of a subsequent agreement between the six Powers and Turkey. A telegram has been received this day from Lord Dufferin, stating that the Porte has expressed its readiness to join the Conference.

MR. O'DONNELL

asked the Secretary to the Admiralty, If his attention has been called to statements by the correspondent of the "Standard" that the English Church at Alexandria received a shell from the English Fleet; to statements of the correspondent of the "Daily News" that a shell from the English Fleet penetrated the General Hospital; and to statements of the correspondent of the"Times"that— Shells from the 'Inflexible' burst right over the centre of the city, "that" the next house to the Palace of Menasce had been hit by a shell and was in flames, "and that" the Free Schools, built at an expense of £14,000 by the European community, have one wing completely battered away; whether he has seen the statements of the correspondent of the "Daily Telegraph," who visited the scenes, that— In the Arab quarter all the shells missing the Pharos Fort had fallen. Here the houses are in chaos. There has been terrible destruction everywhere about the locality. My Arab informant stated to me that in this quarter the people awaited the result of the bombardment quietly for some time, thinking the shells would not reach them. In a short time, however, the destructive missiles flew in among them, and they fled in great fright, leaving dead, wounded, and property behind them. There was great slaughter here, many persons besides soldiers being killed. * * * I learned from another Arab that the shells fired over the Isthmus had fallen wildly, killing many people near Fort Napoleon, and wrecking the houses; whether he has seen the statement in the "Times" of the Manager of the Anglo-Egyptian Bank, who maintained his post along with sixty or seventy Europeans during the bombardment, that shells from the English Fleet fell in the city and frequently passed over the city; and, whether he will cause an inquiry to be undertaken into the reason for such inaccuracy of fire, which, directed against forts on the water's edge, is thus alleged to have extended into and beyond the habitations of the people of Alexandria? The hon. Member said he should continue to ask any Questions in regard to the conduct of foreign affairs under Her Majesty's present Administration whenever he thought fit to do so, leaving it to the option of Her Majesty's Government not to answer Questions.

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

Sir, in common with all readers of newspapers, I have seen many statements made by special correspondents within the last few days, but of the accuracy of those statements I have no knowledge. Some of them, I observe, are quite contradictory of each other. We have certainly no information which induces us to believe that shells from our guns set fire to any part of the town; but we expect, as I said the other day, full and detailed accounts in the Admiral's despatches.