HC Deb 27 February 1882 vol 266 cc1710-1

Motion made, and Question proposed, That a Return be presented to this House by Provinces, of Agrarian Offences throughout Ireland reported to the Inspector General of the Royal Irish Constabulary between the 1st day of January 1881, and the 31st day of December 1881, showing the number of cases in which offenders were convicted; the number of cases in which persons were made amenable but not convicted; the number of cases in which accused are awaiting trial; and the number of cases in which offenders were neither convicted nor made amenable."—(Mr. William Edward Forster.)

MR. HEALY

asked, whether it was not usual for a Member who required a Return, especially where it contained so much contentious matter as this one, to give Notice of it, so that hon. Members having suggestions or objections to make could have the opportunity of making them? He wished to know whether the right hon. Gentleman would not postpone the Motion he had now made until it came up upon the Paper of the House?

MR. W. E. FORSTER

said, the Return was unopposed, and was simply in continuation of one voted last year, and that he had brought forward the Motion in the usual way. It was not customary to give Notice of unopposed Returns. It would be better that the Return should be granted at once.

MR. O'DONNELL

said, there was considerable objection in Ireland to the form in which these Returns were made out by the Chief Secretary for Ireland, and on that ground alone hon. Members ought to have Notice of the Motion.

MR. MONK

rose to Order. The hon. Gentleman was debating, not the Motion, but the principle upon which the Returns were drawn up.

MR. O'DONNELL

said, the hon. Member was quite mistaken. He hoped that most of the Return would be put upon the Paper.

MR. SPEAKER

I beg to point out to the House that in this case the ordinary course had been pursued. The Minister responsible for the Return brought it up as an unopposed Return.

MR. HEALY

, on the point of Order, wanted to know how anybody was to know whether the Return was opposed or not, seeing it was not on the Paper, no opportunity was given of opposing it.

MR. CHILDERS

explained that, in his experience of a great many years, when a Minister wished to lay upon the Table a Return which was not the subject of an Address to the Crown, the invariable rule was that the Minister should move it without Notice, and afterwards lay it upon the Table. He did not think the House would wish to depart from that rule.

MR. CALLAN

did not see why Ministers should be placed in an exceptional position.

MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR

rose to Order. He wished to know whether, when the Question was put from the Chair, it was not competent for any hon. Member to express his reasons for dissenting from such a Motion as that which was now before the House?

MR. SPEAKER

As I have just stated, the ordinary course has been pursued on this occasion, and the Question I shall have to put will be that the said Return do lie on the Table of the House. Any observations can be made upon that Motion; but I should point out that it would be most inconvenient that a discussion should arise before the Return itself is in the hands of Members.

Motion agreed to.

Return presented accordingly; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 72.]