HC Deb 03 April 1882 vol 268 cc556-8
MR. CALLAN

Sir, I beg to give Notice that to-morrow I will ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to the statement which appeared in The Daily Express, a leading journal of Ireland, on Saturday last, to the effect that, after Mr. Anderson made his famous speech against the clôture, he (Sir William Harcourt) met him in the Lobby, and instantly attacked him, using words substantially to this effect—"You call yourself a Liberal Member for a Scotch constituency. We shall see. I have some friends in Glasgow. I shall write to them and let them know how you support the Government. I shall ask them whether they approve your conduct;" and, further, I shall ask the Home Secretary whether that account of the conversation is correct? And, Mr. Speaker, as this is a matter affecting freedom of speech and the Privileges of hon. Members—[Cries of "Order!"]

SIR WILFRID LAWSON

I rise to Order. I wish to know, Sir, whether it is in Order to give Notice of a Question concerning a private conversation?

MR. SPEAKER

If the hon. Member is founding a Question upon conversation which took place in the Lobby of the House, or in the Division Lobby within the precincts of the House, and not upon a matter in the House itself, he is not in Order in taking notice of it.

MR. CALLAN

I should be sorry to found a Question on a conversation. I am founding it upon a report published in one of the leading journals in Ireland—The Daily Express—and I may ask, as this is a matter affecting the freedom of speech—

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is indirectly founding himself upon a conversation within the precincts of the House.

MR. HEALY

Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask you, upon a matter touching the Privileges of Members of this House, whether an hon. Member is not in Order in calling attention to language of a threatening character used by one hon. Member towards another while in the exercise of his Privileges as a Member of this House?

MR. SPEAKER

As I understand the observations of the hon. Member for Louth, that is not the point raised by him.

MR. CALLAN

Virtually and substantially it is the same.

MR. ANDERSON

Sir, as this is a Question referring to me, perhaps the House will allow me to say that it is not asked at my instance nor on my behalf. I consider myself quite able to defend myself against the right hon. and learned Gentleman—to maintain my own position and my own independence against the right hon. and learned Gentleman or anyone else, and I do not want any other Members to interfere on my behalf at any time. I have not the slightest idea how this matter got into the Press. I never was aware that it was published till five minutes ago, when the hon. Member brought me a cutting from a newspaper, and asked me about it. I do not know how it got there. I begged the hon. Member not to ask any Question about it, because, as I said, very likely the right hon. and learned Gentleman thought he was only giving me a little friendly advice.

MR. CALLAN

Now, Sir—

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

Perhaps I may—

MR. CALLAN

I beg the right hon. and learned Gentleman's pardon. I have not finished my Question. This is a matter affecting freedom of speech and the liberty of action of Members of this House. It, therefore, concerns our Privileges generally as Members. As the facts are within his own knowledge, perhaps the right hon. and learned Gentleman will at once answer the Question without consultation with his Colleagues.

MR. MITCHELL HENRY

I beg to give Notice that if this system of eavesdropping and making communications to the newspapers of matters which have occurred in private conversation between hon. Members in different parts of the House is continued, especially by the Members of the House who themselves communicate with the newspapers, I shall move that the Lobby be entirely cleared of strangers during the Sitting of the House.

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

I may, perhaps, be allowed to say a word upon this subject. If it is the pleasure of the House that this matter should be entered into, I have not the slightest objection to state what occurred, so far as I recollect. I met my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow in the Lobby. I had, as I thought, a very friendly conversation with him. That was in the Lobby. I was perfectly aware that he did not agree with me upon the subject of the clôture, and I said to him—"Well, it seems odd. That is quite a different impression from the one I derived when I was at Glasgow with you last October." I expressed my views as to the opinion of the people in Glasgow. As to the use of any language that can be by any perversion described as threatening the hon. Member for Glasgow, that I deny.