RESOLUTION. (Hansard, 19 July 1881)

§ MAJOR NOLAN
, in rising to move a Resolution upon the question of the Potato Crop in Ireland, said, he was anxious to take a division on this subject, if the Government would not accept his Resolution. There had been great danger of a potato famine in Ireland; but it was prevented by the happy chance of a good new crop. Since then a Committee had been appointed on the question, and they had made recommendations which they believed would prevent the immediate recurrence of the plague. In the first place, they recommended that some small experiments should be made; and, in the next place, that new varieties of potatoes should be introduced into Ireland, as it had been found that some kinds of potatoes were out sooner than others. It would be easy to establish new varieties; but no one would undertake the task, as it was not a paying speculation. The potato crop was estimated at about £12,000,000 or £13,000,000 a-year. The third recommendation of the Committee was that small farmers should have brought within their power the means of purchasing good sound seed. It was said that that should be left to private enterprize; but private enter-prize had never done anything in Ireland. He believed if the Government would place within the reach of the small farmers good sound seed, in that way they would confer an inestimable boon on Ireland. For this purpose he believed the best machinery would be the Poor Law Unions. His Resolution would not bind the Government, for he had made it as general as possible; and, with the leave of the House, he would now move it.

§ MR. W. E. FORSTER
said, no one could complain of the manner in which the hon. and gallant Member (Major Nolan) had brought the subject forward. His proposals in the Seeds Act certainly did an immense amount of good in Ireland. He was also justified in the tone he took as to the Committee of last year. The Report of that Committee was most useful, and the evidence collected supplied much valuable information. He (Mr. W. E. Forster) was sorry he could not, on behalf of the Government, accept the Motion, for it would commit to the Government a duty they could hardly perform. They could not undertake to promote the creation and establishment of new varieties of the potato; but as to giving facilities for experiments to check the spread of disease, so far as these could be afforded through the means of the model farms, he was ready to give them. He would give that assurance; but he saw no advantage in making that an actual Resolution of the House in favour of a series of vague experiments. To the latter part of the Resolution, that the Government should bring within the reach of small farmers supplies of sound seed, to be obtained for cash payments, he objected as a duty which the Government could not undertake; but the model farms had proved themselves useful institutions, and he would have the subject brought before them, so that they should do all they could to encourage the object that the hon. and gallant Member had in view.

§ MR. O'SHEA
said, the reply of the right hon. Gentleman illustrated the necessity of the appointment of a Minister of Agriculture, for it was absurd that there should be no means of providing due protection for the staple produce of the country. As to the dignity of the Government being brought into question in the matter, there need be no anxiety upon that point. It was not intended that they should be agents for the supply of new seed, but only that they should help, to some extent, in providing the means for obtaining it. The right hon. Gentleman said he would give advice to the model farms, and, no doubt, that would be useful; but what was proposed was, not that the Government should take on itself the distribution of seed, but that this should be done through the Poor Law Guardians, who had already done it, more or less satisfactorily—they would be the distributing agents, 1364 not the Government itself. This matter, was of the greatest importance to Ireland, and his hon. and gallant Friend (Major Nolan) had done good service in bringing it forward. He sincerely hoped the Government would give a little more practical assistance than platonical advice to the model farms to look after it. Of so much importance was the matter, that he hoped a division would be taken to test the feeling of the House.

§ MR. HEALY
said, he should like to suggest that the Government should do something in the way of experiments, by placing a small sum for the purpose upon the Estimates—say, £100. That was not much to ask, considering the amount of taxation Ireland paid, and the value she received in return. According to Thorn's Statistics, the value of the potato crop, in good years, amounted to £12,000,000, and by the failures caused by bad seed this had fallen to £3,000,000—a total loss from this cause of £9,000,000 in the produce of the country. For the sake of a little expenditure on behalf of the Government, was all this waste to go on? It was when dealing with such subjects that Irishmen felt the want of a Parliament of their own. On such a matter, involving so much national interest, no National Assembly would begrudge a little expenditure. A sum of £100 would enable Professor Baldwin and his staff to do much in the way of experiment.

§ MR. MITCHELL HENRY
said, he was glad to hear that the Government would direct the attention of the model farms to the subject, and he hoped that these experiments might be supplemented by other experiments on the Land League model farms, which the League had on their hands.

§ MAJOR NOLAN
said, that for the purpose of carrying out experiments, one or two farms should be taken temporarily for a few years. He did not think model farms could do everything; what was wanted was the raising of new varieties of seed. Model farms were always anxious to produce good balances, and the raising of new kinds of potatoes was not a paying operation; so, with the desire to show a good balance, proper attention would not be bestowed on the experiments. Some more assistance was wanted, some increase in the Estimates. As to the dignity of the House and the Government not being 1365 compatible with dealing in a staple of food, really he could not regard that as an argument; the Poor Law Guardians would do it.

§ SIR JOHN LUBBOCK
said, the hon. and gallant Member (Major Nolan) had so mixed up two entirely different questions that he would prevent many hon. Members from supporting his Resolution. There was a great deal to be said in favour of experiments that would throw light upon the nature of potato disease, and it could hardly be expected that these would be undertaken by individuals at their own expense. But the third part of the Resolution was of a very different character. He did not see how the Government could undertake to bring sound seed within the reach of farmers. If potato seed, then it might apply to all seeds; and that would be entering into a business Government was quite unfitted to carry on. If the Resolution were modified by the omission of the latter part of it, then he would support it.

§ MAJOR NOLAN
said, as the hon. Member for the London University (Sir John Lubbock) was a very high authority, he would be happy to withdraw the latter part of his Motion.

§ MR. SPEAKER
The hon. and gallant Member can, with the leave of the House, withdraw the whole of his Motion, and bring it up again in an amended form.

§ MAJOR NOLAN
asked, could he bring it up again now?

§ MR. SPEAKER
No; the hon. and gallant Member cannot take that course.

§ MR. DENIS O'CONOR
asked, would it not be open to an hon. Member to move to amend the Resolution?

§ MR. SPEAKER
It is open to an hon. Member to do so.

§ MR. DENIS O'CONOR
then moved that the words and by bringing within the reach of small farmers supplies of sound seed to be obtained for cash payments should be omitted.

§ MR. W. E. FORSTER
said, that would take away the chief objection to 1366 the Resolution; but he should prefer that the Resolution should run— By facilitating the progress of further experiments as to the best means of lessening the spread of the potato disease and promoting the creation and establishment of new varieties of the potato. But he supposed he was too late in proposing this alteration.

§ MR. SPEAKER
If the Amendment and the Motion are withdrawn, the Resolution could be brought up in the form proposed by the right hon. Gentleman.

§ MAJOR NOLAN
said, he should like to know if the Government would bring it up, so that it might be passed this Session?

§ MR. W. E. FORSTER
said, he would put it on for the next night. He wished to avoid any misunderstanding; he could not undertake that a Vote should be placed on the Estimates this year; but he would make it his duty to consult Professor Baldwin and others, to obtain information as how to best carry out the progress of experiments, and the best means of arriving at the result desired.

§ MAJOR NOLAN
said, but would the Resolution be passed this year?

§ MR. W. E. FORSTER
said, yes; he would put it on the Paper at once.