HC Deb 18 February 1881 vol 258 cc1222-4
SIR HENRY TYLER

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, with reference to the report (p. 25, Transvaal Blue Book) of Mr. Hudson, Colonial Secretary, Transvaal, dated December 1st, 1880, to Sir Owen Lanyon, of his interview with Mr. Paul Kruger, at the Boer Laarger, twenty miles from Pot-chefstroom, and to the following ex-tract from his dialogue with Mr. Paul Kruger:— Mr. Kruger— The Government has precipitated matters, the people are impatient, and matters are now serious. Had the Government waited, the Committee would have laid before the people on the 9th January Sir. Gladstone's proposals, and have been prepared to take action on them, and matters peaceably arranged. Mr. Hudson—The Government has received no information from the Committee of the object of the meeting, or any intimation that any proposals from Mr. Gladstone had been received, or were to be discussed; at least I never heard of it; whether he has made any proposals to the Boers of the Transvaal independently of the Colonial Secretary in England, or of Sir Owen Lanyon; and, if so, when; whether Mr. Kruger had any justification in referring to "Mr. Gladstone's proposals;" and, whether Mr. Hudson and Sir Owen Lanyon were placed at a disadvantage in communi- cating with the Boers in ignorance of communications addressed by the Home Government to the Boers directly, and not through the Colonial authorities?

MR. GLADSTONE

Sir, in reply to the Question which is addressed to me at some length by the hon. Baronet the Member for Harwich, my answer will be very brief; and it really comes to this— that I am entirely at a loss to see what can be meant by what appear to be called "Mr. Gladstone's proposals." I am not aware of having at any time, in any shape, or to any person, made any proposal whatever. That being so, therefore, there must, I think, be some misapprehension on the part of my hon. Friend who has put the Question.

SIR HENRY TYLER

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, in reference to the telegram from the President of the Orange Free State to the Administrator, Cape Town, dated 6th December 1880, "on the very serious aspect of affairs in the Transvaal," and "to a collision which seems imminent,"—to Lord Kim-berley's written reply dated 1st January 1881, regretting, Having regard to the grave importance of the question to which these telegrams relate, that Sir G. Strahan did not communicate them to me by telegraph; —to Sir Owen Lanyon's Despatch dated 5th December 1880, and received in London on the 5th January 1881,—and to other despatches in the Transvaal Blue Book, If he would explain why means were not adopted for sooner strengthening our forces in Natal and the Transvaal, with a view to preventing an actual outbreak from taking place with any probability of temporary success?

MR. GLADSTONE

With respect to these further Questions, I will not refer to the particulars of them; but the purport is how it comes that in respect to certain communications, with certain dates, Her Majesty's Government did not adopt the military means to strengthen our forces in Natal and the Transvaal, with the view of preventing an actual outbreak. Well, Sir, there are three of those communications. The first is a telegram from the President of the Orange Free State to the Administrator, Sir George Strahan, in Cape Town, dated 6th December, 1880. That date, undoubtedly, was a considerable time before any military preparations were made in this country. With respect to that I have to say, what, I believe, the hon. Baronet may know, that it was a very considerable time indeed after the date of that communication before it reached us. It was, unfortunately, not transmitted to us by telegram, and only came to us at a comparatively late period. With respect to Lord Kimberley's letter of January 1, and the telegram received on the 5th, I have only to say that Her Majesty's Government had no intimation whatever or any means of judging that it was probable that the Boors meditated a 'rising of the nature of that which has taken place until the 30th December, and that, instantly upon receipt of that first disquieting communication, measures were taken with, I must say, in my opinion, very great promptitude. The first military decision was taken on the 21st, and the order was given for the despatch of troops on the 23rd; but, generally speaking, the answer to the Question would be that no information had reached the Government from their officers in any part of South Africa that led them to believe that it was likely that any such rising as has taken place would occur before the actual time at which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War proceeded with the greatest possible despatch to strengthen the forces in South Africa.

SIR HENRY TYLER

asked, Whether a telegram was not received on December 4, stating that the attitude of the Boers rendered necessary an increase of the forces at Pretoria?

MR. GLADSTONE

I am not aware, Sir, of any telegram that could have led to the taking of any military measures here before the time when such measures were taken. But probably it will be more satisfactory to the hon. Baronet to place upon the Notice Paper the precise terms of his Question.