§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNORasked whether he should be in Order in moving on Saturday for the issue of a new Writ for the borough of Wigan? He spoke in the interests of the Irish electors, who determined the election in that borough. ["No!" from the Ministerial Bench.]
§ MR. CALLANIs it not in the power of the hon. Member to move for a new Writ without Notice?
§ MR. CALLANsaid, he heard an answer from the Treasury Bench; but he 886 asked the question of the Chair, and not of the Treasury Bench.
§ MR. SPEAKERIn the case of a vacancy for a seat in this House it is a matter of Privilege. It is always taken as a matter of Privilege, unless otherwise ordered by the House; and it would be open even now for the hon. Member to move that a new Writ be issued for the borough of Wigan.
§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNORUnder those circumstances, I beg to move for the issue of a Writ for the election of a Member to serve in this present Parliament for the borough of Wigan in the room of Mr. F. S. Powell, whose election has been declared to be void. If a new Writ is not issued, a very grievous injustice is inflicted on a portion of the electoral body of Wigan who have been proud to be singularly free from a system of corruption, and who have done nothing to merit the punishment involved in the loss of their franchise. The Irish electors are a very considerable portion of the electors of Wigan, and I am not aware that the Attorney General would be able to say anything against them, whatever may be said of the supporters of the Conservative candidate.
§ MR. SPEAKERDoes anyone second the Motion?
§
Motion made, and Question proposed,
That Mr. Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Clerk of the Grown to make out a New Writ for the Election of a Member to serve in this present Parliament for the Borough of Wigan, in the room of Francis Sharp Powell, esquire, whose Election has been declared to be void."—(Mr. Arthur O'Connor.)
§ THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir HENRY JAMES)Sir, I believe I made a statement a few minutes ago that, whenever a Writ for the borough of Wigan was moved, I should call attention to the Report of the Judges who tried the Election Petition. I must ask for absolution on account of the non-fulfilment of that promise, because, if I were now to enter on that evidence, I feel the object I have in view would be entirely frustrated. I was under the impression that the Sessional Order passed in the last Session of Parliament that two days' Notice should be given whenever Election Judges had reported that a constituency had been guilty of corrupt practices before the Motion for the issue of a new Writ was made applied to 887 this Session also; but I found that that Sessional Order has not been renewed this Session; and, therefore, the hon. Gentleman, in making this Motion, was quite within his right. But while, technically, he is within his right in making it, of course I should be doing no good now with the few Members present, and when many of those who voted last Saturday are absent, if I were to call the attention of the House to the view I entertain of the evil consequences likely to result from the vote arrived at on Saturday; and, therefore, I will content myself now with asking the House to postpone the consideration of this question until the House shall be more fully constituted. I do not think the House should say that the interests of a comparatively small section of the electors of Wigan—the Irish electors—ought to prevail over the general interests of the constituency and the general interests of the whole country. That the Irish electors were pure I am not prepared for one moment to assume. Nobody, in the face of that which is pointed out to be the truth, that great corruption did exist in that borough, can say that it is so. What I feel so strongly is, if I may use a colloquial expression, how can we look those eight constituencies in the face with whom we were obliged to deal last year, how can we in common justice deprive them temporarily or permanently of their representation, and give permanent immunity to the constituency of Wigan, which is in exactly the same position? How shall we be able to deal with constituencies in the future? How can we reflect upon our conduct in the past if we deal, at the present moment, in this manner with the constituency of Wigan? It is not for me to say what is the view of my Colleagues, some of whom are now around me. All I would do now is very respectfully to ask the House to postpone its judgment upon this Motion which has been made, and not to give practical effect to it until after further consideration of what course should be taken. I can only say, personally, I do not wish the House to be guided by my view. I only know it is very discouraging to those who try to deal with corrupt practices at elections, and endeavour to find a practical mode of stopping them, that we should be called upon to give perfect immunity to the borough of Wigan.
§ MR. BIGGARI do not think myself that the Government ought to oppose this Motion. The Attorney General, when the Motion was made in favour of the appointment of a Commission, did not go into the merits of the case, and the result was that a decision against the appointment of a Commission was given on very insufficient information; but after that the hon. and learned Gentleman comes and gives pretty full information. If that had been done in the first instance the decision might have been different from what it was; but, seeing that the decision was come to by the House, whether rightly or wrongly, it is the duty of the Government, as far as possible, to carry that decision into practical operation. Although I myself am not disposed to palliate in the most remote degree the conduct of persons who take bribes, yet I think the political system of England from top to bottom is such that it is hardly proper to bring these charges against the unfortunate people who take bribes, and who cannot hope at any time to receive any practical or personal acknowledgment from the advantages of the franchise; and when we know that Members of Parliament and others have situations and personal titles held out to them for the influence of their votes, I think we are beginning at the wrong end when we attempt to criticize too severely the conduct of the unfortunate electors of Wigan.
THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTONI think there is no doubt that if the Motion just made is negatived, it will be competent for any hon. Member next Session to move for a new Writ. It is quite impossible, at the present moment, that the House could give any adequate consideration to this question; and, therefore, I see no reason why the issuing of a Writ could not be postponed.
MR. J. COWENI quite concur with the view of the Attorney General that it is undesirable to make any terms with electoral corruption. It is a scandal and disgrace to our system that men should sell their votes, or, what is equivalent to it, that the cost of elections should be made so ruinously extravagant. Every step that the Government takes to reform the present system, and to punish those who indulge in electoral corruption, I will most cordially support. But, while saying this, I am bound to admit that my hon. Friend 889 the Member for Queen's County (Mr. Arthur O'Connor) had some justification for the observations he made. In electoral purity Ireland is vastly ahead of England. Although a much poorer country, the people are in no sense amenable to the corrupting and demoralizing influence of wealthy counties in the way they are here. Nothing that Parliament can do will redound more to its credit than radically to reform our electoral system, and allow merit and capacity, and not wealth, to have an opportunity of asserting itself at the polling booth. Now, a rich man is able, by his extravagant expenditure, to practically swamp the opinion of the constituencies; and as, in Wigan, this has been done to a considerable extent, I think it will be well to withhold the Writ. But singling out special cases of this kind has very little general effect, and all the good that can come of it is to bring once more prominently to the attention of the English public the degrading and immoral influences that are brought to bear in electoral contests. Having done that, I hope the Motion will be withdrawn, as a division at this moment can be of little value.
§ MR. NEWDEGATEI think the state of the House—empty, and not likely to fill to-day—is sufficient answer to this Motion; but there are other grave reasons why we should not carry into suspension any one of these Orders. The House generally anticipates that next Session we shall have the question of reform of election before us, and whether the Ballot is to be continued in its present form. I cannot feel that these eight constituencies are culpable in the sense that they would have been under the régime of open election. I only see in the Ballot the commencement of the evil system which I saw in operation in the United States 40 years ago. I am sorry that these constituencies should have so committed themselves, and I cannot exonerate Parliament from blame. I hold that the system of secret voting exposes the constituency to temptations—temptations of wholesale corruption, from which, under the former system of election, the country was free.
§ SIR WILFRID LAWSONI should like to add my voice to the request which has been made to the hon. Gentleman opposite that he would consent 890 to withdraw his Motion. I think it would be a rather satisfactory conclusion to the Session; but if we go and move a Writ for another election in the borough which the Attorney General has told us the Judge has reported to have been guilty of wide-spread corruption I do not think it will be very satisfactory. I would point out one other thing. I do not think the electors, and the Irish electors, which the hon. Gentleman very laudably excepted, will suffer any very substantial grievance if we do not move a Writ to-day, because we do not expect to meet here again for six months; and, therefore, we could consider what should be done with Wigan by that time. There is one point on which I am not quite clear. I do not know whether it is possible to renew the Motion the Attorney General made last week for the appointment of a Commission to inquire into the existence of corrupt practices in Wigan. At any rate, if that be possible, I think we should not deal with that question now. The Attorney General might have an opportunity of moving that Motion next Session, and the matter might be discussed. If the hon. Member for Queen's County insists an going to a division on his Motion I shall vote against it; and I hope my hon. and learned Friend, who, I think, had been somewhat misled last Saturday, may have an opportunity of obtaining the correct opinion of the House.
§ MR. WARTONI regret very much that the hon. Member for Queen's County has made this Motion. The reason I am sorry is on account of the weakness of the Tory Party on the present occasion. At the same time, it is most unjust that the Writ should be withheld from Wigan. I must protest against the hon. and learned Attorney General, whose law always seems to be most convenient to the political Party with which he is connected, stating that Notice should be given of the intention to move a Writ. It turns out to be the case that Notice need not be given, I must protest against him in another way. He has no right to tell the House that there is no precedent, because, although there be no precedent, that is not the point. No precedent is required, because the Act of Parliament, which overrides all precedents, has left it in the discretion of this House. It is in 891 the discretion of this House—let the Judges report as strongly as they choose—to say whether or not a new Writ should be issued. I would remind the Attorney General of the Knaresborough case, which ought to teach us caution. In that case the Judges reported against the constituency, and a Commission was issued; and it has turned out, after all, that there was no occasion for the Judges' Report, and that the constituency of Knaresborough has been unjustly saddled with 4s. in the pound. As far as precedents go, the absolute discretion of this House is quite as good as that of some of Her Majesty's Judges. The circumstances of the corruption in Wigan were that on the coldest day of winter (the 18th January), when the country was covered with snow, some poor wretches accepted a breakfast about half as good as that which the Radical and right hon. Members for Birmingham gave their constituents on every occasion.
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNORIt is not the intention of my hon. Friend to proceed to a division. His object is rather to make something of a reductio ad absurdum of the proposals that came from both sides of the House in reference to corrupt constituencies. The Attorney General put the case with perfect accuracy when he said that it was a question of "looking each other in the face;" and I challenge the hon. and learned Gentleman to say that in a single constituency in England or Scotland at the last General Election a contest was conducted on true purity principles. ["Oh, oh!"] I am not at all astonished to hear that protesting ejaculation, especially from Liberal Members, because every vote on an average at that election cost the Liberal Party 30s. Everybody knows that they spent between £1,000,000 and £2,000,000 sterling to get their candidates accepted by the various constituencies. There is no subject in the world on which so much cant is spoken as on this of bribery at elections. No doubt Wigan, if the case were proved against it, would be fully deserving of its fate; but I do not know any constituency which would not deserve whipping if it got its deserts. At Wigan a few starving people may have got breakfast on a cold morning; but what was that it comparison with the money given by the Liberal Party to the wire-pullers, the minders of the 892 Caucus machine, the electioneering solicitors, and the various other agencies without which the Liberal Party would not have obtained its majority in this House? I do not believe that either side of the House is in earnest as yet about this question of bribery at elections. I voted the other day against a Commission of Inquiry at Wigan, my reason, if I had any, being that I wished to make this evil so intolerable that it must be noticed. I wish to know from the Treasury Bench whether the Government intend to signalize their tenure of Office by dealing with this evil of corruption in a stringent manner, and not by the rather paltry measure which the Attorney General brought in this Session.
§ SIR EARDLEY WILMOTI consider that this question of corrupt practices is in no way a matter of Party—and had I been in the House last week when the Motion was made to issue a Commission of Inquiry for Wigan I should have supported the Government. In the face of the Report of the Judges, I think that no other course was open to the House, and I regret that Members of my own Party took the course they did. If a division is taken on this Motion I shall vote against it.
§ MR. CALLANI rise to complain of the enormous expense which many constituencies demand from candidates—notably North Durham, in which, during the past 10 years, something like £160,000 has been spent by one side and the other.
§ MR. SPEAKERI must remind the hon. Member that the Question before the House is the issue of a Writ for Wigan.
§ MR. CALLANI was simply referring to North Durham in this way—that Wigan is not so corrupt as other constituencies for which Writs have been issued or are pending, and that if a Judge were called upon to inquire into such constituencies as North Durham he would probably make his Report in much stronger terms than were used respecting Wigan. At the same time, it is desirable that the Writ should be suspended, so that it may be held in terrorem over such constituencies as North Durham and the other English constituencies, for they are almost all corrupt.
§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNORIf I had voted the other day it would have 893 been in favour of the Motion of the Government for the issue of a Commission of Inquiry; but that having been rejected, and Government having no further suggestion to make, it appears unreasonable to refuse to the electors of Wigan their right of representation in this House. I know very well that there may be a considerable difference in the vote of the constituency six months hence and the vote which would be given now. There can be no doubt the Irish electors of Wigan will follow the example of those in Knaresborough and Coventry, and record their votes against a Coercion Ministry; but whether that will be their action six months hence I do not know. I beg leave to withdraw my Motion.
§ Motion, by leave, withdrawn.