MATTER considered in Committee. (Hansard, 22 August 1881)

§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR
said, he did not propose to offer any remarks to the Committee on these Accounts; but there were two or three things in them which even a cursory examination induced him to think were worthy of attention. He would, therefore, ask the noble Marquess one or two questions. The first thing that struck him as being strange was, that the people of India should have to pay in the year ending the 31st of March, 1880, the sum of £213,000 for the administration of India from England in the shape of the salaries of the Secretary of State and the Under Secretary of State, law charges, charges made by the Bank of England for the management of Debt, and a number of other contingent expenses, all of which were expenses made and met in London. It appeared to him to be somewhat anomalous that these charges should be thrown on the resources of India, seeing that the Colonies did not pay for the expenses of the Colonial Office, and there was just as much ground for charging the Colonies with the expenses connected with the Colonial Administration as for charging India with the expenses of the administration of the affairs of India. He observed, also, that this was a charge which had been going on increasing year by year, and it was a charge which the Natives of India had no opportunity of reducing, and scarcely any power of protesting against. In 1880 the charge was £210,000; and now, in spite of the fact that it was proposed to re-model the Administration, and to re-model it on an economical scale, the charge was very considerably more than it had ever been before. There had been a reduc- 700 tion of Staff in connection with the Indian Museum; but he (Mr. Arthur O'Connor) presumed that any saving in that respect would be swallowed up in pension and compensation allowances. There was an item in the Account of £20,563 for the salaries and allowances of the staff, pay of police, and contingent expenses in connection with the Indian Museum. He did not see why India should not be called upon to pay for keeping up a Department of this kind at the British Museum or at South Kensington, just as well as for the Indian Museum. Of what earthly use was the Indian Museum to India, and why should the people of India pay for it? He knew that in the later Accounts there was a charge for the cost of enlarging the Museum at Kew for the reception of an Indian Collection. That charge amounted to £2,112. This was a charge which would certainly not escape criticism if India were represented in this House; but, unfortunately for India, it was not, and hence these charges which went on increasing year by year until it was impossible to know where they were likely to stop. There was another item of £75,000 for the management of an establishment in China. Now, why should the people of India have to pay for an establishment in China? It appeared to him to be an extremely unjust thing that the taxes of India should be called on to repay any such charge in connection with an establishment in China. He agreed with his hon. Friend the Member for Dungarvan (Mr. O'Donnell) that it would be a good thing if Irish Members, who were the only men in the House who could have a thorough sympathy with India, would take up the cause of India and ventilate the grievances under which the people of that country suffered. Like their own country, India had been subjugated by an alien Power, and the Irish Members could sympathize with them in their subjugation. At any rate, they were the only men in that House who were likely to feel for the Indian people, and he trusted that next year the Indian Budget would not be allowed to be passed over as it had been this year until the fag end of the Session, when there could only be a sparse attendance of Members, and one evening only devoted to discussion, the time so devoted being scarcely sufficient to touch the mere fringe of the 701 question of the Administration of India. The result was that hon. Members, who had given much time to the study of the subject, were obliged to abstain from dwelling upon the many large questions to which the consideration of the affairs of India would naturally give rise. It was a monstrous thing that a community numbering 80,000,000 of people should have their affairs discussed and disposed of in the easy offhand manner in which those of India were dealt with. It should also be borne in mind that India was absolutely unrepresented in that Assembly, and that the voice of the Indian people was not heard. He trusted that next year a sufficient number of Irish Members would be found who would be determined to turn their attention to the subject of India, and would be determined to bring it before the House with the fulness and detail it deserved. It was perfectly certain that if they did something of that kind, the feeling they would raise in India would have its re-action in the benefit of Ireland, and they would never regret the attitude they took up.

§ MR. O'DONNELL
said, he was sorry the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for India, after having made use of very generous words, should have expressed his astonishment that he (Mr. O'Donnell) had singled out the gaols of Bengal rather than those of any other Province. Now, he (Mr. O'Donnell) had not confined his criticisms to the gaols of Bengal; but he had referred to them for the same reason that they had been singled out by the entire European and Native Press of India as scandalous examples of heartless cruelty; and if the noble Marquess took the perpetrators of those cruelties under his wing, he should not hesitate next Session to ask him to answer to that House for the abominations he had refused to deal with.

§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR
hoped he might be allowed to put a further question with regard to an item in the Indian Estimates, which appeared to him to be a new one—namely £290 for Registration. It appeared to be a new charge placed against the Natives of India. He had no doubt that there was some good purpose to be served by this Registration; but what it was did not exactly appear from any of the Papers that had been given to the House. Pro- 702 bably the noble Marquess would be able to throw some light on the matter.

THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON
said, the hon. Member for Queen's County (Mr. Arthur O'Connor) had asked why the people of India should be charged with the cost of Home Administration, and why the Colonies should not be charged with the expenses of the Colonial Office? The hon. Member must know that it would be very difficult to divide the expenses of the Colonial Office; and, as far as this charge was concerned, it was one that had always been thrown upon the people of India. No doubt, the item was a considerable one; but, in the opinion of a great many people, the adminstration of the affairs of India by this country was very greatly for the advantage of the people of India. No doubt, there were others who were of opinion that it was not for the advantage of the people of India that they should be governed by this country at all. If, however, it was for their advantage, he did not think any serious complaint could be made because they were charged with the expense of their own Department of the Government. The hon. Member had also asked a question about the Indian Museum. He believed that a change had been made with respect to the Indian Museum which would considerably relieve the Indian Revenue. The Indian Museum had been transferred to South Kensington; and although a certain amount was charged in respect to it to India, that charge would be considerably reduced by the arrangement that had been made. He certainly could not agree with the hon. Member that the Museum was altogether useless to the people of India. There could be no object more desirable than that of promoting trade with India; and it was thought that one of the best means of encouraging trade with India was to make the productions of that country as well known as possible; and one of the best means of making known the productions of Indian industry was through the Indian Museum. The hon. Gentleman had, further, put a question with reference to the establishment in China. He was unable to say what the basis of that change was; but he had no doubt that it was a matter of arrangement between the Indian Government and the Home Government. In all probability, if it should appear that this amount was now 703 charged for the first time, it was in consequence of a settlement in regard to the matter having been arrived at between the India Office and the Treasury. As far as the establishment itself was concerned, the people of India could not justly complain if they were charged with the expense of supporting it, seeing that they got very great benefit indeed from the Opium Revenue and from the trade with China; and it was not altogether unreasonable that they should be asked to pay £75,000 for the maintenance of the Indian establishment in that country. He was afraid he could not give the hon. Member any information with respect to registration; but if the hon. Member would ask the question on another day he would make inquiries.

§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR
said, there was just one other question which he wished to put. It had reference to the maintenance of a lunatic in Broad-moor Asylum. The sum charged was £59 16s. 1d.; but he had been to the trouble of examining the Report of the Commissioners of Lunacy, and they said that the actual expenditure was only £47 17s. 6d. per head. That being so, it appeared strange that the Auditor should have allowed a charge against India for the maintenance of one lunatic of £59 16s. 1d.