HC Deb 08 July 1880 vol 253 cc1910-2
LORD GEORGE HAMILTON

was about to put a Question on this subject, when—

MR. A. M. SULLIVAN

said, that he noticed in the terms of the Question something which referred to what had been stated in a previous debate this Session. If that were so the noble Lord could hardly be in Order in putting the Question, and he asked for the ruling of the Speaker on the subject.

MR. SPEAKER

I understand the object of the noble Lord's Question is to inquire whether a certain Return can be laid before the House. I do not observe in it any reference to a former debate. Any reference to what was said in a former debate this Session would be irregular.

LORD GEORGE HAMILTON

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, If he can lay upon the Table of the House a tabulated Return of the landlords whom it is alleged have availed themselves of the present disastrous state of things to improve their estates, by adding farm to farm in order to grow sheep instead of men; such Return giving the number of farms cleared, and the imcrease in the value of each individual estate so consolidated.

MR. W. E. FORSTER

I am not aware of the allegation to which the Question refers having been made. It was not made by myself; and if it was made by any other Member of the Government perhaps it would have been better if the noble Lord had asked such Member. What I believe has been stated is this—that it is very desirable to prevent landlords from so availing themselves, and a Bill, of which probably the noble Lord is aware, has been brought forward for that purpose.

LORD GEORGE HAMILTON

Am I to understand that any assertion or any allegation to the effect mentioned in my Question is based upon pure assumption if the right hon. Gentleman is not able to adduce any facts?

MR. A. M. SULLIVAN

I would venture to ask the noble Lord, who was himself a Member of the late Administration, Does he mean to say that those allegations were made in this House by a Member of Her Majesty's Government this Session, because I have been informed by you, Sir, that to put such a Question would be exceedingly irregular? I now beg to ask him when and where and how the allegation was made?

MR. W. E. FORSTER

I think the noble Lord is really asking me a Question which would ultimately lead to a debate. I endeavoured to give as clear an answer as I could. I demur to any assumption beyond the words I used. The Question would oblige me to refer to a past debate, and I cannot answer it without such reference.

MR. SPEAKER

It certainly does appear to me now, from the conversation which has taken place on this matter, that the Question put by the noble Lord does refer to a past debate of this Session. I am bound to say that any reference to what has been said in a past debate of this Session would be irregular.

MR. W. E. FORSTER

said, that perhaps he might be allowed, as a matter of personal explanation, to state that he was quite ready to meet the noble Lord in debate upon the question.