SECOND READING. (Hansard, 18 February 1880)

§ MR. MUNDELLA
, in moving that the Bill be now read a second time, said, he did not intend to address the House at any length, as it was the fourth time the Bill had been before them, and on two former occasions he explained its 896 provisions at considerable length. Besides, he should find himself in a considerable difficulty if he attempted to say anything new on the question, and he thought discussion was so completely exhausted on the 3rd of April, last year, that it would be trespassing on the patience of the House if he attempted to go into its merits again. But during the past year there had been many new facts cropping up, which strongly bore out his arguments in favour of the provisions of his Bill. He was much gratified to find that the Press of the country, whether Conservative or Liberal, were almost unanimously in favour of the Bill. Her Majesty's Government, he thought, made a mistake in not assenting to it when he moved the Second Reading last year, as they did when he introduced it in the year 1877; and there was little doubt that the Bill would have become law three years ago but for the action of a private Member, who, at the last stage, moved an Amendment against it.The Timesnewspaper, on the 3rd April, last year, said, in reference to his Bill, that although he had failed again to persuade the House to abolish property qualification, he could console himself with the thought that it was rejected by a very small majority. If he wanted any arguments, he might rely upon some of the speeches of hon. Members made on that occasion. One was made by the hon. Member for Morpeth (Mr. Butt), who made the remarkable boast that he had lived for about 14 years in the borough he then represented, and during the whole of that time he never resided in a house which gave him a qualification to sit as a member of a local board, and yet he was able to sit in that House and assist in Votes which now amounted to about £87,000,000 a-year. Another hon. Member also said he could point to a village in Northumberland where there were 2,000 inhabitants, and not more than 15 of them were eligible to serve on the local boards. The village was noted for its bad sanitary arrangements, and many of the houses were in the most wretched condition. During the last year some score or two of cases had been submitted to him showing the hardship of the present system, which was nowhere harder than in the Metropolis. The qualification for vestrymen varied in different districts. In Clerken well it 897 was a rating of £25 some years ago; but now it had been raised to £40, because more than one-sixth of the houses of that district were rated at over £40 a-year. It was, therefore, a fluctuating qualification. One of the oldest and most popular members, who had served on the vestry from its foundation, was excluded because of the insufficiency of his property qualification. Another, who had served 10 years, was also disqualified, and a member of the select vestry was obliged to resign, and had to remain out for two years, until he was able to obtain a qualification of £40 a-year. Another case came under his notice the other day. A very respectable man in the Metropolis was asked to stand as a vestryman, but because he was only rated at £39 a-year, or £1 below the legal qualification, he was disqualified; but although he might not stand as a member of the select vestry, he was now standing for a large borough and for a Member of Parliament, with every probability of his being elected, at the next General Election. The present system, in his opinion, was absolutely absurd. At Liverpool, the other day, a man who was returned by many thousands of votes was disqualified, because of some defects in his qualification. He could scarcely believe that Her Majesty's Government were willing that this state of things should continue; and he looked forward with pleasure to an hon. Member of the Government getting up in his place and accepting the Second Reading. If he might point to any particular part of the Kingdom where municipal government was well conducted, and infinitely better conducted than in any other, he would refer the House to Scotland. There was, in his opinion, no part where municipal government was. so pure and above suspicion as in Scotland. The whole system was most admirable, and yet local self-government was there carried out without any qualification whatever. In conclusion, the hon. Gentleman said he must apologize to the House for having spoken even to the length lie had, because he thought the case was no longer arguable. It was argued out, when it was said men might enter that House without any qualification, or become members of the school board, and vote away hundreds of thousands of pounds a-year without being electors. 898 Even on Boards of Guardians men could be elected who were merely ratepayers, and property was left to take care of itself. They had a right to give electors a free choice of those who would serve them best; and his Bill would simply remove certain disqualifications which prevented the electors from getting the Best men to serve them upon their local boards. He begged to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

§ MR. CLARE READ
said, he had no intention of opposing the Bill; in fact, he wished it every success in its main object; but, at the same time, he thought it right to give Notice that when the Bill should go into Committee he would endeavour to have Guardians excluded from its provisions, for a Guardian was a dispenser of the rates for the purpose of relieving destitution; and it would, consequently, be a great mistake, even if only a small portion of the members on Boards of Guardians came from a semi-pauper class.

§ MR. SALT
said, he had received a letter from his right hon. Friend the President of the Local Government Board (Mr. Sclater-Booth), who was unavoidably absent in consequence of domestic affliction, desiring him to say that he would not raise any opposition to the Second Reading of the Bill, but that he wished to reserve the right of criticizing its details in Committee, more especially with respect to the qualification for Poor Law Guardians. The hon. Member in charge of the Bill would remember that, on a former occasion, he (Mr. Salt), on his own responsibility, opposed the Second Reading of the Bill, when it was rejected by a majority of eight. He (Mr. Salt) retained his own opinion and his own private right of action. On this occasion, however, speaking and acting on behalf of his right hon. Friend the President of the Local Government Board, he should offer no opposition to the Second Reading.

§ MR. W. E. FORSTER
congratulated his hon. Friend (Mr. Mundella) upon the success of his Bill. At the same time, he was sorry that the Government had not seen that there was no defence to the present law earlier. He trusted 899 there would be some law on the subject this Session.