HC Deb 02 May 1879 vol 245 cc1590-2

asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, If he can now state the precise amount contributed or due out of Imperial funds for the Transvaal, Trans-Skei, and other expenditure in South Africa up to the end of the financial year 31st of March, or if he expects a Supplementary Estimate on that account, and what proportion of the whole expenditure the South African Colony is expected to contribute up to the same date; whether the South African Colonial Government has received any money; and, if so, how much from lands and forests that have been added to the territorial jurisdiction of that Colony, and whether the Home Government shares in such receipts, if any; whether, referring to Sir Bartle Frere's Letter of February 17th, 1879, to the Secretary of State acknowledging the Special Allowance of £2,000 out of Imperial funds for the year 1879, in addition to a similar allowance for the years 1877 and 1878, and renewed in November last year, it will be reclaimed from the Colonial Government by the Home Government at some future time; whether Sir Bartle Frere has any other allowance than the Special Allowance here referred to, and from what sources; and, whether any negotiations have been entered into with the Government of the Cape Colony for apportioning between the Home and Colonial Governments the large expenditure now being incurred?


I am bound to say that the Questions are a little mixed up, and that it is difficult to exactly separate them. With regard to the contribution out of Imperial funds for the various Colonies for the expenses they have occurred, it is necessary to distinguish between the expenditure of the Transkei War and the war which has been going on in Zululand. I do not quite know to what some of those Questions actually point. I think I can tell the hon. Gentleman and the House that the Government have information before them which enables them to state that the expenditure out of the Imperial funds for the Transkei War amounted to about £524,000, besides the ordinary pay of the Imperial troops engaged. That money has been provided, and we believe it will not be necessary to ask for any Supplementary Vote. I may mention that there is one month which is not included in the Appropriation Account, for which the amount will be between £70,000 and £80,000—that is the month of March last year—and when that account is finally made up, which will not be till towards the end of the present financial year, we shall see whether there is anything to be paid on that account; but we hope it will turn out that we shall have nothing to pay. With regard to the Transvaal, the House is aware that the sum of £100,000 was granted to that Colony at the time of the annexation, and was to be repaid, to satisfy a debt which was duo. There was to be a further sum of £69,000 spent out of the Imperial funds in the year 1878–9, which leaves a total amount outstanding on account of the Transvaal of £169,000. That, of course, has nothing to do with the war. With regard to the Zulu War, the accounts are, up to the present time, only imperfect; but, as far as I can judge by the drafts on the Treasury Chest, I have reason to believe that the sum of £1,559,000, which was voted last year, will be sufficient to cover the expenditure up to the 31st of March last. With respect to the second Question, concerning the money received from lands and forests, I am not able to give any information. That is money which is received in the Colony, and applied on the spot, and the Home Government has nothing to do with the receipts. With regard to the special allowance of £2,000 to Sir Bartle Frere, that is paid from the Imperial funds to him as High Commissioner, and is not chargeable on the Colony. There is, I believe, some further payment made by the Colony; but I am not able to say what it amounts to. I think it appears, from the Papers before the House, that the Colony shall subscribe a sum of £1,000 a-year for certain expenses connected with administration. With respect to the other allowance which Sir Bartle Frere has, I think that is his pension from the India Office funds, and it is rather in the nature of a pension which he has earned by his own contributions, and he receives that allowance from the India Office as a member of the Council. I am not able, however, to give the precise figures. In reply to the last Question, I may say that communications are going on with the several Governments—of whom there are four, and not one, as suggested by the hon. Member's Question—as to the apportionment of the expenses and the means by which they are to be recovered from the different Governments.


May I ask whether Sir Bartle Frere is now drawing his pay as a member of the Indian Council?


I really am not able to say. I should think not.



said: Perhaps I may be allowed to supplement the answer which I gave somewhat hastily just now. It is stated in Class 5 of the Civil Service Estimates, that Sir Bartle Frere receives an annuity of £1,000 on his retirement from the Bombay Civil Service, and another annuity of £500 as a retired member of the Indian Council.