HC Deb 23 June 1879 vol 247 cc518-20

Clause 57 (Commutation and remismission of sentences) agreed to.

Clause 58 (Effect of sentence of penal servitude) agreed to.

Clause 59 (Execution of sentences of penal servitude passed in the United Kingdom).

MR. HOPWOOD

said, he observed that the hon. and gallant Member for East Aberdeenshire had an Amendment on the Paper to this clause, and he must, therefore, renew his Motion to report Progress.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again." — (Mr. Hopwood.)

COLONEL STANLEY

must again express a hope that the Committee would proceed. The Amendment of the hon. and gallant Member for East Aberdeenshire was not one he could consent to. It was to leave out one of the officers, the Adjutant General, who might have received directions to act as one of the committing authorities. He acted as a committing authority for certain purposes under this Act, and he did so in discharge of his duty. This would not produce the slightest effect upon any prisoner. He was merely the committing authority, just as a magistrate, or anyone else, was. He could not consent to leave out the words "Adjutant General," and he hoped the Motion would not be pressed.

MR. HOPWOOD

should be very glad to accede to the appeal of the right hon. and gallant Gentleman the Secretary of State for War, if the hon. and gallant Member for East Aberdeenshire had not gone away under the impression that he had stated.

COLONEL STANLEY

must appeal once more to the Committee. He had had the honour of a seat in that House for some years, and he had yet to learn that they were to subordinate the whole of their proceedings and the time of the Committee to any one particular hon. Member. If he had given the understanding which had been referred to, or had even indirectly assented to it, he, of course, should have been willing to carry it out; but he gave none, and, really, upon two trivial Amendments to leave the Adjutant General's name out of the clause, he thought it was a little hard upon the Committee—he did not say upon the Government—to stop the progress of the Bill.

MR. HOPWOOD

remarked, that his allegation was that his hon. and gallant Friend believed that the Government had assented to Progress being reported after Clause 56, and had left the House under that impression. ["No, no!"] Hon. Members would excuse him; but this was not to be answered by clamour. He understood the hon. and learned Member for Taunton (Sir Henry James) to suggest that course, and the right hon. and gallant Gentleman to assent. ['' No, no!"] He did not say that the right hon. and gallant Gentleman did. It was quite enough for him (Mr. Hopwood) that the right hon. and gallant Gentleman said he did not. He was, however, under that impression. But he also took his stand upon the merits, and he thought that, considering the hour at which the Committee had arrived, it was impossible that they could any longer give their undivided attention to this important Bill.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, he certainly did not understand that even what fell from the hon. and learned Member for Taunton (Sir Henry James) implied that they were to stop at the end of Clause 56. What ho understood that hon. and learned Member to say was that they should at least finish Clause 56, because it was supposed to be connected with what had preceded it. No intimation was given on the part of the Government that they did not intend to ask the Committee to proceed further. He quite admitted that, at that time of the night, it would not be reasonable to go into any matter of difficulty that would lead to great contention; but that they should be stopped because one single hon. Member had left the House appeared to him to be wholly unreasonable, and, considering the great length of time that had already been spent over the Bill, and what still remained to be accomplished, he thought the Committee would be altogether, wrong if they were, for such a reason, to decline to make a little more progress with the measure. He hoped the feeling of the Committee would be that they ought to proceed.

SIR HENRY JAMES

said, he expressed no opinion whether they should go beyond Clause 56. He observed that the hon. and gallant Member for East Aberdeenshire had several Amendments on Clause 67. They referred only to two words, "Adjutant General," the object being to strike out all reference to that officer, and if the right hon. and gallant Gentleman would consent to pass over that clause, they might get rid of a great many clauses upon which there was no contention. When they reached Clause 69, they came to rather heavier ground, and it would then be desirable to report Progress.

COLONEL STANLEY

thought the best course would be that the hon. and gallant Member should have an opportunity of challenging the opinion of the Committee on the Report.

Motion negatived.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 60 (Execution of sentences of penal servitude passed in India or a Colony) agreed to.

Clause 61 (Execution of sentences of penal servitude passed in a foreign country) agreed to.

Clause 62 (General provisions applicable to penal servitude) agreed to.

Clause 63 (Execution of sentences of imprisonment) agreed to.

Clause 64 (Supplemental provisions as to sentences of imprisonment passed in the United Kingdom) agreed to.

Clause 65 (Supplemental provisions as to sentences of imprisonment passed in India or a Colony) agreed to.

Clause 66 (Supplemental provisions as to sentences of imprisonment passed in a foreign country) agreed to.

Clause 67 (Removal of prisoners to place where corps is serving) agreed to.

Clause 68 (Commencement of term of penal servitude or imprisonment) agreed to.