[BILL 27.] SECOND READING. (Hansard, 1 April 1879)

§ MR. RODWELL
, in moving that the Bill be now read a second time, briefly 186 stated the object of the measure and the mode in which it was sought to effect it. At the present moment, the demand for the accommodation of pauper lunatics throughout England had become a great burden upon local taxation. He could state, from Returns which he had seen, that there were only six counties in England which were not under peremptory orders to provide increased accommodation, in some form or another, for pauper lunatics, and under the present system an appalling amount of money would be required. As the law stood at present, the Commissioners in Lunacy were bound to treat anyone whose mind was affected in any way—all harmless crazy, imbecile, curable, or incurable persons—as lunatics, and the consequence was that their lunatic asylums were crowded with chronic, harmless, and imbecile patients who did not require those expensive establishments, or that scientific attendance and treatment which was provided in them, and who might be taken care of at a much smaller expense. There were many vacant workhouses and other public buildings in the country which were now useless, and the object of his Bill, was to enable a special Board to take front the lunatic asylums and the union workhouses those patients who were imbecile or incurable, and who were harmless, and put them in what he would call infirmaries, which might be hired or purchased by the county authorities. There were two reasons why the Bill must find favour with the public. The first was that it would lessen the local taxation, which was very much increased by the expense of lunatic asylums; and the second consisted in the fact that curable patients were likely to recover with greater rapidity if separated from the incurable. The County Boards Bill contained provisions which would operate in much the same way as the Belief of Insane Poor Bill; but as the former Bill appeared to give rise to a good deal of opposition, he had determined to proceed with his own measure. He proposed that each county should provide establishments for paupers who were pronounced to be imbecile or incurable, and, at the same time, harmless. He also proposed that the Governing Body of these establishments, which might be purchased or hired, should be the Visiting Justices for the time being, together with the Chairmen of all the Boards of 187 Guardians within the county. Following the lines of the Lunatic Act, his Bill made the county provide for the establishment and fitting up of the necessary buildings, and the parishes responsible for the maintenance, clothing, and medical attendance of the inmates. The infirmaries, he thought, should be controlled and supervised by the Local Government Board, and not by the Commissioners in Lunacy. He believed it would be a great advantage to the Commissioners if they were relieved from this class of lunatics, and, in fact, this Bill would be a boon to the ratepayers and to the imbeciles and lunatics themselves.

§ MR. SALT
said, that everyone must have felt that his hon. and learned Friend had made out a good case for some action in this matter. It was a very important measure, and it was also one of great difficulty; but he would not object to the second reading, though he doubted whether the lines upon which it was drawn would work well. His hon. and learned Friend had been brief, and he would promise to be brief in his reply. At present there were two systems providing for the insane and imbecile poor. On the one hand, there were the Justices in Quarter Sessions, with their committees, managing the large county asylums subject to the Lunacy Acts. The Lunacy Acts were designed to provide care for the insane; and they contained many special provisions to prevent the risk of dealing with any person of sound mind as insane. But there were also the Poor Law Acts, under which imbecile paupers might be kept in the workhouses of the county. The lunatic asylums were directly under the control of the Commissioners in Lunacy; but the imbecile wards of the workhouses were under the Local Government Board, subject to occasional inspection by some person from the Lunacy Commission. The hon. and learned Member for Cambridgeshire had mixed up these two schemes. This might or might not be a good thing; but he was not prepared to pronounce upon it without serious consideration and careful inquiry. On this point his hon. and learned Friend would be wise to adopt 188 the proposal which stood in the name of the hon. Member for Mid-Somerset (Mr. Paget) and refer the Bill to a Select Committee. About the details of the Bill he had still more doubt than about its general principles. Many of its provisions were of a novel and remarkable nature. Some of the clauses contained powers that he believed to be quite unprecedented; but to these at this stage of the Bill he could only very imperfectly allude. He felt a tenderness towards the Bill because its principle was good, and because it was the Bill of his hon. and learned Friend. He would, therefore, not oppose the second reading; but, at the same time, he strongly urged his hon. and learned Friend to refer the measure to a Select Committee, with power to the Committee to inquire into the whole subject of the custody of the insane poor.

§ MR. WHITWELL
thought the proposal to erect new institutions and establish new Boards was a very large one. He entirely sympathized with the object of the hon. and learned Member and the poor imbeciles, whose interests and comfort were of great moment; but the subject was a wide one, not only as to the object, but as to the mode of treatment and kind of institution, and that, therefore, the subject should, in the interest of the ratepayers, be carefully considered before a Committee.

§ MR. MARK STEWART
said, the system advocated by the hon. and learned Member who introduced this Bill had been very beneficial in Scotland. The great point to be considered in extending this system was whether they could do so without requiring large staffs in cases where there were comparatively only a few persons requiring restraint?

DR. CAMERON
was afraid that in this Bill economy had been more studied than the comfort and well-being of the unfortunate imbeciles concerned. In Metropolitan asylums where such separation was practised, and where the best treatment was adopted, very excellent results were produced upon the inmates, many of whom reached a condition vastly more human than when they entered, and were enabled to enjoy in their own way some of the pleasures of life; but to talk of putting incurable imbeciles into some miserable workhouse ward, and maintain them at, say, 4s. 6d. per week, was a 189 thing that ought not to be aimed at. He was sure such a thing was not intended by the hon. and learned Member who proposed this measure.

§ MR. RODWELL
said, he would accept the proposal to send the Bill before a Select Committee. The importance of the subject could not be exaggerated in any point of view.