HC Deb 06 December 1878 vol 243 cc196-8
LORD ROBERT MONTAGU

asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, What is the authority for Lord Lytton's statement in the telegram of September 26th, 1878 (not contained among the facts which were given in his three previous messages), viz.:— Officer commanding fort said … but for personal friendship he would, in obedience to the Ameer's orders, have shot down Cavagnari and his suite; why neither the account given by the Indian Government on the same day (p. 239), nor that of October 3rd (p. 247), mention such a grave occurrence; if he could explain why Major Cavagnari, in his report of the affair, says— Faiz Muhammed Khan, from first to last, has behaved in a most courteous manner, and very favourably impressed both Colonel Jenkins and myself; and, why Sir Neville Chamberlain, in writing his demand on September 22nd, (p. 259) to the Commander of Ali Musjid, said— You declared that you had received no instructions to permit the British Mission to pass, and stated that you would certainly oppose it by force if it advanced?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

Sir, if my noble Friend will turn to the next page to that which he has quoted from the Blue Book I think he will find an answer to his Question. At page 249 he will find a Report from Major Cavagnari to Sir Neville Chamberlain, and the 11th paragraph contains a full account of what took place. It is there stated by Major Cavagnari that Faiz Muhammed Khan came down to meet them, and stated that he was not allowed to proceed, and then he makes this observation— That if he had not been friendly disposed he would not have consented to the present interview or have restrained his levies from firing on my party. At page 251, in the Report from Colonel Jenkins, who was present on the same occasion, there is the following passage:— Major Cavagnari then asked whether, under these circumstances, the Sirdar would oppose the passage of the Mission; and the Sirdar said that he would certainly do so. He further said 'You may take it as a kindness, and because I remember friendship, that I do not fire upon you for what you have done already.' These are the grounds upon which the Indian Government spoke of the armed opposition by which they were encountered, and I think that is an answer to the Question. The noble Lord asks me, whether I can explain how it was that Major Cavagnari, in his report of the affair, said that— From first to last Faiz Muhammed Khan behaved in the most courteous manner, and very favourably impressed Colonel Jenkins and myself. No doubt Faiz Muhammed Khan had a very disagreeable duty imposed upon him in resisting the English Mission, and I presume that he discharged that disagreeable duty with courtesy, and like a gentleman, as no doubt he is. It is stated that he favourably impressed both Major Cavagnari and Colonel Jenkins. His restraining his levies from firing would favourably impress them.

LORD ROBERT MONTAGU

I would ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, If he does not think such an interpretation of the words quoted is inconsistent with those other words quoted by Sir Neville Chamberlain; and whether the real meaning of them is not this—"You see how perfectly friendly I am to you. You see I still maintain my ancient friendship." ["Order!"]

MR. SPEAKER

remarked that the noble Lord was not entitled to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer for an expression of opinion on this point.

LORD ROBERT MONTAGU

Then I will ask whether this is not the meaning of the words—"As a proof of my great friendship for you, I have restrained my levies from firing on you."

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

That was not the impression that was made on the minds of our two emissaries. Colonel Jenkins, in his Report to Sir Neville Chamberlain, says that had it not been for the great courtesy and care exercised by Major Cavagnari a collision would probably have taken place. No doubt there was considerable danger; and if Major Cavagnari had not, with considerable dexterity and tact, changed the subject, it is extremely likely that serious consequences would have ensued.