[BILL 146.] CONSIDERATION. (Hansard, 16 April 1878)

§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, he had very carefully considered, since the discussion on the previous evening, the rates of the tobacco duty, and he proposed to make an Amendment in Clause 3, line 34, page 2. Although he did not feel that his hon. Friend the Member for the Tower Hamlets (Mr. Ritchie) had made out the case which he desired to impress upon the House, and though he was not prepared to accede to his views by altering the rates of the duties, yet he did propose to make an alteration in reference to the drawback, which he thought would be of material advantage to the trade. At present, as was stated in the discussion last night, a great deal of snuff manufactured from the stalks was presented for drawback, and the drawback was allowed upon it, and much of the article on which the drawback was allowed was abandoned as really valueless. He had been in consultation with his advisers at the Customs on the subject, and it was thought that it would be fair and reasonable to allow exporters of this snuff, when delivered at the Customs, to obtain the drawback, and thus prevent them from the necessity of sending that snuff across the Channel to the Channel Islands, or to France, and there finding it unsaleable. Therefore, he begged to move a Proviso, to the effect that any licensed manufacturer should be entitled, under the Act of 1863 and this Act, to this drawback, provided he deposited the stalks at the Queen's Warehouse, and abandoned the same to be destroyed.

§ MR. RITCHIE
hardly knew what effect this concession would have upon the persons whose complaint he had presented to the House; but he wished to 1418 inform the right hon. Gentleman that the price of these stalks was less now than in 1863, in consequence of the consumption of this sort of snuff having greatly decreased. The right hon. Gentleman had said that he had not made out a case for an increase of duty on cigars. Last night the right hon. Gentleman agreed, however, that possibly the British manufacturers would suffer to some small extent by the imposition of the new duty; but he proceeded to observe that, as the price of tobacco stalks had increased from 2s. 4d. in 1863 to 2s. 8d. in the present year, the additional 4d. would more than compensate the British manufacturers for any loss they might sustain from the increase of the duty. He had made inquiries that day of a large firm of tobacco brokers in the City, and he ascertained from their circulars that in 1863 the price of tobacco stalks varied from 2s. 10d. to 3s. 2d.; whereas in April, 1868, the price of the same qualities was put down at 2s. 10d.to 3s. Therefore, instead of the stalks being worth 4d. per 1b. more now than they were in 1863, they were actually worth 2d. per 1b. less. It might, perhaps, be asked why, if the price were 2s. 10d. in 1863, the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Greenwich, when fixing the differential duties, took the price at 2s. 4d.? The answer was, that the circulars gave the price for the stalks when they were in a perfectly dry state; but the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Greenwich took the price of the stalks with the 20 per cent of moisture in them. This was the cause of the error into which the Chancellor of the Exchequer fell when he stated that the price was 4d. per 1b. more now than it was then.

§ MR. SPEAKER
pointed out, that the hon. Member's remarks had nothing to do with the Amendment proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

§ MR. RITCHIE
thought he had sufficiently explained what he had to say, and he need not trouble the House any further on the point. He did not see that the concession which the right hon. Gentleman proposed to make was likely to be acceptable to the trade.

§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, that, in order to carry into 1419 effect the views of the hon. Member for Durham (Mr. Herschell), he would, in Clause 12, move additional words to the effect that, where any machinery or plant was let upon such terms that the burden of maintaining and restoring the same fell on the lessor, he should be entitled, upon claim made to the Commissioners, to have repaid to him such portion of the sum which ho might have been charged in respect of the diminution of value caused by the wear and tear of such machinery or plant.

§ MR. CHADWICK
said, that manufacturers were much indebted to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for concessions which would fairly meet their views.

§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, that, as the House was about to separate for the Holidays, and it was a great convenience to the trade of the country to be free from suspense in these matters, he would venture to suggest, and he hoped the House would allow the Standing Orders to be suspended, in order that the Bill might be road a third time.

§ MR. SPEAKER
said, he was obliged to point out, that although with respect to Bills, other than Money Bills, two stages of a Bill were occasionally taken at one Sitting on grounds of urgency, there was no instance of this course being taken with regard to Money Bills.