HC Deb 15 March 1877 vol 232 cc2019-21

Order for Second Reading read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."—(Mr. Gathorne Hardy.)

Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "it is inexpedient that the Mutiny Bill should empower the Government to billet officers without making any payment to the occupiers of the houses on which the officers are billetted; also that where horses are billetted a fair price should be paid for forage and stable room,"—(Captain Nolan,)

—instead thereof.

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

MR. CAVENDISH BENTINCK

thought it would have been more convenient to raise this question in Committee on the Bill. His answer to the objection of the hon. and gallant Member was this, that every landlord took his licence with full notice of all his liabilities, and, among those, innkeepers were bound to give the accommodation Officers desired without pay. If the hon. and gallant Member wished to revert to the subject when the Bill was in Committee he would be prepared to discuss the matter with him.

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

reminded the hon. Gentleman that his hon. and gallant Friend had last year raised this question in Committee on the Bill, and was then met by a technical objection.

SIR ALEXANDER GORDON

hoped some explanation would be given of the reasons which had led the Secretary of State for War to introduce one of the most important changes in the Mutiny Act which had been made for many years. It was proposed in this Act to render all the officers of the Militia amenable to the Mutiny Act and the Articles of War when they were not embodied and not out for training or exercise. Such a proposal had not been made since the Act of Settlement in 1688, yet no explanation had been given. He should draw attention to the subject on going into Committee on the Bill and move a Resolution.

SIR WALTER B. BARTTELOT

remarked that such an important change as that contemplated in the Bill with reference to bringing the Militia under the operation of the Articles of War, not only while they were embodied and out for training, but during the remainder of the year, should not have been made without due Notice having been given to the House, and a statement made, showing how it would be beneficial to the Militia, as well as for the interest of the country.

MR. DILLWYN

had always regarded the Bill in the light of a continuance Bill, and was astonished to find that important alterations had been made in it.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY

was surprised that the hon. Member for Swansea, who kept such a keen look-out upon the proceedings of Parliament, had overlooked the Paper in which these Amendments had been announced. As regarded the Amendment of the hon. and gallant Member, he thought it had no relevance to the second reading, however appropriately it might be raised on the Motion for going into Committee on the Bill. As regarded billeting he had never received any complaint from the innkeepers with respect to the billeting of officers, as they were such liberal customers that the profit the innkeeper received on the refreshments compensated for the price of their bed. As regarded the allowance for fodder, it might be sometimes below the market price and sometimes above it, but it was, on the whole, a fair charge. As to the point raised by the hon. and gallant Member for Aberdeenshire (Sir Alexander Gordon) with respect to the Militia, the Committee which inquired into the subject, and which included a number of Militia officers, recommended unanimously that this change should be made. The Militia was no longer the civilian corps it was formerly, and therefore it had been thought desirable to bring it rather more into conformity with the Regular Army.

MR. PARNELL

thought it was becoming too much a matter of course to pass the second reading without any discussion, and that hon. Members might have that opportunity he would move the adjournment of the debate.

MR. BIGGAR

seconded the Motion.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Debate be now adjourned."—(Mr. Parnell.)

MR. H. B. SAMUELSON

said, it was quite a mistake to suppose the alterations in this Bill came upon the House like a thunder-clap, for he distinctly recollected the right lion. Gentleman, when moving the Army Estimates, stating what he intended to propose. He hoped the hon. Member (Mr. Parnell) would withdraw his Motion.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY

also trusted that the Motion would be withdrawn.

Motion, by, leave, withdrawn.

Question again proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

Question put, and agreed to. Main Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read a second time, and committed for Monday next.