HC Deb 21 June 1877 vol 235 cc144-5

Amendment as to Loans to Local Authorities and Remission of Sundry Loans.

Clause 2 (Charge of interest on local loans in Ireland, and provisions as to their issue and remission.)

Amendment proposed, in page 2, line 11, to leave out from the beginning of the Clause to the word "Exchequer," in line 20.—(Mr. Bruen.)

SIR JOSEPH M'KENNA

supported the Amendment.

MR. W. H. SMITH

opposed it, and stated that the interest charged was only sufficient to secure the Exchequer against loss.

Question put, That the words 'All advances out of the Consolidated Fund made by way of loan after the passing of this Act,' stand part of the Clause.

The Committee divided:—Ayes 111; Noes 32: Majority 79. — (Div. List, No. 185.)

CAPTAIN NOLAN

proposed the insertion of the word "lower" in the clause, believing that 3½ per cent would be sufficient.

MR. W. H. SMITH

objected.

CAPTAIN NOLAN

considered that it would be more convenient not to fix the loans at the high rate proposed in the Bill.

MR. BIGGAR

was understood to concur in that view.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

SIR JOHN M'KENNA

moved the insertion in line 20, after "without," of the words "profit or," before "loss to the Exchequer," the object of the Amendment being that no profit should be made out of a loan.

Amendment proposed, in page 2, line 20, after the word "without," to insert the words "profit or."—(Sir Joseph M'Kenna.)

Question put, "That those words be there inserted."

The Committee divided: — Ayes 30; Noes 110: Majority 80.—(Div. List, No. 186.)

Clause agreed to.

Clause 3 (Recovery from grand jury of advance made.)

MR. BIGGAR

moved that Progress be reported.

MR. W. H. SMITH

hoped the hon. Member would not press the Motion, the Bill being one of importance to Ireland, and the remaining Amendments being unlikely to occupy the Committee more than a few minutes.

MR. BIGGAR

said, he would give them five minutes more.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 4 (Advances for support of lunatic asylums by county treasurer instead of out of Consolidated Fund.)

CAPTAIN NOLAN

moved the omission of the clause.

Question put, "That Clause 4 stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided: — Ayes 90; Noes 16: Majority 74. — (Div. List, No. 187.)

MR. R. POWER,

remarking that the five minutes generously given by the hon. Member for Cavan had expired, moved to report Progress.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, he had no wish to press the Bill on if Irish Members were unwilling, but he intimated that it would be impossible to fix an early day for resuming the Committee.

After some discussion,

Motion agreed to.

Committee report Progress; to sit again upon Thursday 5th July.