HC Deb 02 July 1877 vol 235 cc602-62

AYES— Nolan, Captain O'Donnell, F. Parnell, C. S. Power, J. O'C. Power, R.

TELLERS—Major O'Gorman and Mr. Whalley.

MR. O'CONNOR POWER

immediately moved, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair."

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair."—(Mr. O' Connor Power.)

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 106: Majority 101.—(Div. List, No. 202.)

AYES— Nolan, Captain O'Gorman, P. Parnell, C. S. Power, R. Whalley, G. H.

TELLERS—Mr. O'Donnell and Mr. O'Connor Power.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."— (Mr. Richard Power.)

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 105: Majority 100.—(Div. List, No. 203.) [A.M. 2.50]

AYES— Nolan, Captain O'Donnell, F.H. O'Gorman, P. Parnell, C. S. Whalley,G.H.

TELLERS—Mr. O'Connor Power and Mr. Richard Power.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair."—(Mr. Parnell.)

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 105: Majority 100.—(Div. List, No. 204.)

AYES— Nolan, Captain O'Donnell, F.H O'Gorman, P. Power, R. Whalley, G. H

TELLERS—Mr. Parnell and Mr. O'Connor Power.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."— (Mr. O' Connor Power.)

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 106: Majority 101.—(Div. List, No. 205.)

AYES— Nolan, Captain O'Gorman, P. Parnell, C. S. Power, R. Whalley, G. H.

TELLERS—Mr. O'Donnell and Mr. O'Connor Power.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair."—(Mr. Whalley.)

MR. PARNELL

asked, what did the right hon. Gentleman want? Did he want a victory over five Irishmen? What was the principle he was contending for?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, it was for this—that a small minority should give way to a large majority. They would not be disgraced by now giving way, seeing that it would be an act of personal courtesy to the officials of the House and to Mr. Speaker, who all this time was waiting.

MR. O'CONNOR POWER

declined to give way; and proceeded to address the Committee, when—

Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; Committee counted, and 40 Members being found present—

[A.M. 3.35]

MR. WHALLEY

said, it was ridiculous, and not even honest, to go on with Business at these hours. The Business of the House, he said, should be carried on by the light of day. [A laugh—for it was now broad daylight.] He was prepared to go to the country to-morrow and contest this question. [Mr. D. DAVIES made a remark in Welsh.] Yes, he would undertake to carry the hon. Gentleman's own borough against him on this question — provided he would promise not to address his constituents in Welsh.

MR. O'DONNELL

addressed the Committee on the Motion, when—

[A.M. 4.10]

Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; and the Committee having been counted, and 33 Members only being present, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair, and counted the House; and 40 Members being present,

SUPPLY — further considered in Committee.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That a sum, not exceeding £132,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for Army Reserve Force Pay and Allowances (including Enrolled Pensioners), which will come in course of payment from the 1st day of April 1877 to the 31st day of March 1878, inclusive.

MR. O'DONNELL

said, it was really the Government that was obstructing Business by resisting the Motion for Adjournment. He was ready to sit for 24 hours longer to protest against the shame of this midnight legislation.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."— (Mr. Parnell.)

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 64: Majority 59. — (Div. List, No. 206.)

AYES— Nolan, Captain O'Donnell, F.H. O'Gorman, P. Power, R. Whalley, G. H.

TELLERS—Mr. Parnell and Mr. O'Connor Power.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair."—(Mr. O'Donnell.)

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 65: Majority 60. — (Div. List, No. 207.)

Ayes— O'Gorman, P. Parnell, C. S. Power, J. O'C. Power, R. Whalley, G. H.

TELLERS—Captain Nolan and Mr. O'Donnell.

Motion made, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."—(Mr. O' Connor Power.)

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT,

who for a great part of the evening had represented the Leaders of the Opposition, rose, and with great force deprecated a continuance of these undignified proceedings. Enough had been done to vindicate the desire of the Government to get on with Business, but seeing the contest was vain with Members who were determined to listen to no argument or remonstrance, he thought the Government would do well to give way. At the same time, he reminded the present occupants of the Treasury Bench that when they sat opposite, the hon. Member for York (Mr. J. Lowther) and others had adopted the same tactics of obstruction which now created so much displeasure when acted on by the hon. Member for Mayo and his Friends.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, he greatly regretted the contest that had arisen; but it was not a question whether the Government should give way, but the House.

Question put.

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 64: Majority 59. — (Div. List, No. 208.)

AYES— O'Donnell, F. O'Gorman, P. Parnell, C. S. Power, R. Whalley, G. H.

TELLERS—Captain Nolan and Mr. O'Connor Power.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair."—(Major O'Gorman.)

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 63: Majority 58. — (Div. List, No. 209.) [A.M. 4.35]

AYES— Nolan, Captain O'Donnell, F.H. Parnell, C. S. Power, R. Whalley, G. H.

TELLERS—Major O'Gorman and Mr. O'Connor Power.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."— (Mr. Richard Power.)

Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; Committee counted, and 40 Members being found present,

[A.M. 5.0]

MR. ASSHETON CROSS,

who now represented the Government, appealed to hon. Members to allow Business to proceed. The Vote under discussion was proposed before midnight, and had been resisted for upwards of five hours, because the Secretary for War had omitted to answer a question put by an Irish Member which had reference to a Vote that had already been passed.

MR. PARNELL

said, that Irish questions were treated in a half contemptuous way, and it was only by determined action that the Representatives from Ireland could force upon the House the conviction that Irish questions were entitled to be respectfully considered.

MR. O'CONNOR POWER

said, the contest was now assuming a very serious character. The supposed slight thrown upon him by the Secretary for War was a very small matter; but the manner in which Irish Members and Irish measures were treated was a very grave matter; and they would continue their opposition as long as the Government liked, in order to enforce the attention of the country. Their opposition was not a prearranged business—he was astonished not to find himself in bed. But he felt as though he could remain until Macaulay's New Zealander took up his station on the broken arches of London Bridge to sketch the ruins of St. Paul's, so strongly was he convinced of the principle he was maintaining.

MR. BLAKE

remonstrated against these continuous Motions, the real object of which was obstruction and nothing else. The hon. Member for Meath had publicly avowed it. At a public meeting in the Strand, in April last, he had said that as he and his Friends could not meet the Government with cold steel, they would do all they could to thwart them in the ways that were open to them. And at a meeting at the Italian Schools in Hatton Garden, on the 17th of June, he had ventured to speak of the Speaker with marked disrespect; for he was reported to have said that the Speaker looked upon Home Rule Members as a trapper did on vermin.

MR. PARNELL

rose, and with great warmth denied that he had ever used such language in reference to the Speaker; and he challenged the hon. Member to produce his authority.

The Times of that date having been procured from the Library, the following extract from the report of a speech attributed to Mr. Parnell on the occasion in question was read:— If he (Mr. Parnell) were to tell them that the Speaker was a man of great ability, but that he looked upon Home Rule Members much as a trapper would look upon vermin, he should in all probability incur his displeasure and the consequences of that displeasure. If he were to speak of the way in which the English Members generally performed their duties, he might say a great many unpleasant and very true things. If he told them that the English Members neglected their duties to England and especially to Ireland, he might find himself brought before the House of Commons, and if he were to speak fully of the Irish Members he might incur the charge of telling tales out of school. He should, therefore, ask them to excuse him if he did not tell as much of the truth there as he spoke in the House itself. On the passage referring to the Speaker being read, hon. Members expressed much indignation; and an hon. Member said that language disparaging to the Speaker of that House was a breach of the Privileges of the House, and expressed a hope that the conduct of the hon. Member for Meath would be brought under the notice of the House.

MR. PARNELL

denied that the language he had used supported the charge brought against him—for if hon. Members had but attended to the passage read to them they would have found that his expression was merely hypothetical —"If he were to tell them—" ["Oh, oh!"]

Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; Committee counted, and 40 Members being found present,

[A.M. 5.35.]

Question put.

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 63: Majority 58.—(Div. List, No. 210.)

AYES— Nolan, Captain O'Gorman, P. Parnell, C. S. Power, J. O'C. Whalley, G. H.

TELLERS—Mr. O'Donnell and Mr. Richard Power.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair."—(Mr. Parnell.)

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 63: Majority 58. — (Div. List, No. 211.)

AYES — Nolan, Captain O'Donnell, F.H. O'Gorman, P. Power, R. Whalley, G. H.

TELLERS—Mr. Parnell and Mr. O'Connor Power.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."— (Major O' Gorman.)

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 63: Majority 58. —(Div. List, No. 212.)

AYES— Nolan, Captain O'Donnell, F.H. Power, J. O'C. Power, R. Whalley, G. H.

TELLERS—Major O'Gorman and Mr. Parnell.

MR. WHALLEY

said, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Secretary for War, and now the Home Secretary had left the House, and there was no Minister left to guide or advise them. The Committee of Supply, under such circumstances, was a sham and a pretence.

MR. KING-HARMAN

rose to Order. Was that proper language to apply to a Committee of the Whole House?

THE CHAIRMAN

said, the hon. Member's language was strong, but not un-Parliamentary.

MR. WHALLEY

said, he would withdraw the language, but would move that the Chairman do leave the Chair.

Motion made, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair."—(Mr. Whalley.)

After some further angry discussion—

The Committee divided:—Ayes 5; Noes 62: Majority 57.—(Div. List, No. 213.)

AYES— Nolan, Captain O'Donnell, F.H. O'Gorman, P. Parnell, C. S. Power, R.

TELLERS—Mr. O'Connor Power and Mr. Whalley.

Motion made, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."—(Mr. Richard Power.)

Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; Committee counted, and 40 Members being found present,

[A.M. 6.20]

Question put.

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 62: Majority 57.—(Div. List, No. 214.)

AYES— Nolan, Captain O'Donnell, F.H. O'Gorman, P. Parnell, C. S. Power, J. O'C.

TELLERS — Mr. Richard Power and Mr. Whalley.

Motion made, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair."—(Mr. Parnell.)

Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; Committee counted, and 40 Members being found present,

[A.M. 6.45]

Question put, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair."

The Committee divided: — Ayes 5; Noes 62: Majority 57.—(Div. List, No. 215.)

AYES — Nolan, Captain O'Donnoll, F.H. O'Gorman, P. Power, R. Whalley, G. H.

TELLERS—Mr. Parnell and Mr. O'Connor Power.

Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; Committee counted, and 40 Members being found present,

[A.M. 7.0]

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."— (Mr. O'Connor Power.)

SIR HENRY SELWIN-IBBETSON,

who was now the sole occupant of the Treasury bench, appeared to think that the Government had persevered long enough, but warned hon. Members that the probable result of the course pursued would be an alteration of the Rules of Debate, and a curtailment of the privileges of Members.

MR. WHALLEY

rose to address the Committee, when—

Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; Committee counted, and 40 Members not being present:

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair:— House counted, and 40 Members not being present:

House adjourned at a quarter after Seven o'clock in the morning.

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