HC Deb 22 June 1876 vol 230 cc261-5
MR. GATHORNE HARDY

I trust the House will allow me to allude to a Question put on Wednesday by the hon. and gallant Member for Galway (Captain Nolan) during my absence on that day. It was a Question serious in itself, and the course which the hon. and gallant Member took on Wednesday, as far as I can understand his remarks—for I did not hear them, and only became acquainted with them in the way Members are obliged to do when not present—seemed to have implied either that the Military authorities or the Government had taken such part with the view of hindering the gentleman alluded to from standing for the representation of an Irish county now vacant. In the Question which the hon. and gallant Member put upon the Paper on Wednesday—which I did not see till that morning, for I left London very early on Wednesday morning, on official business, as the hon. and gallant Member knew I was about to do—he asked the Secretary of State for War— If any Officer stationed at New bridge has been refused, verbally or in writing, leave to contest an Irish constituency; and was this refusal on account of his politics. The charge is a very grave one, whether it be addressed to the Government or to the Military authorities. I will therefore tell the House what happened exactly with respect to myself. On Monday evening the hon. and gallant Member asked me whether I had heard anything about this gentleman having been refused leave of absence, and I said that I had not. I was waiting for the Education debate to come on, and could not leave the House to inquire at the Office; but I immediately wrote to my Secretary, requesting him to make inquiries. On going down to the Office on the following morning, I found that nothing was known on the subject, and I ordered that a telegram should be sent to Ireland at head quarters. We got no answer for some time because nothing was known of the matter in Ireland. A telegram was sent to the Curragh, and inquiries were made at New bridge. Nothing was known at the Curragh on the subject until the 20th. Therefore, yesterday, the hon. and gallant Gentleman was informed by my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary that we had no information on the subject at that time; but later in the day he privately sent to the hon. and gallant Gentleman a telegram which we had received, and which did not contain full information. I have now obtained that information, and in order to show the House what little ground there was for the charge which the hon. and gallant Member has insinuated against the Government or the Military authorities, I will, with the permission of the House, read the telegrams which have been received to-day. A telegram was received a little before 2 o'clock. It is from the Deputy Adjutant General in the War Office at Dublin to the Adjutant General at the War Office in London, and is as follows:— Full Report called for by telegraph from General Commanding at Curragh on Captain O'Beirne's case was received here by special messenger last night too late for London post, but went by this morning's post, and will reach you to-night. Nothing was known of this case here until your telegram of the 20th was received. The facts are these:—On 16th instant Captain O'Beirne applied to his Commanding Officer for leave, for electioneering purposes, for a period beyond the power of that officer to grant. He offered, however, all he could—48 hours, and referred Captain O'Beirne personally to the General Commanding at the Curragh. Captain O'Beirne, on the 20th, did not see the General. On the 21st Captain O'Beirne applied through his Commanding Officer for leave from the 22nd until the declaration of polling for county Leitrim, which was immediately granted by General Seymour. Subsequent to that, and in consequence of the Government sending another telegram, they received very shortly before I came down to the House another telegram from the Deputy Adjutant General in Ireland— Your telegram just received. A full telegram has been already sent to you this morning. On the 16th instant Captain O'Beirne asked his Commanding Officer for several days' leave for electioneering purposes. Colonel Stewart replied that he had only power to grant two days' leave. Captain O'Beirne said that would do him no good. The Colonel then told him he had permission to go and see the General Commanding at the Curragh. Captain O'Beirne went to the Curragh that evening, but finding the Brigade Office closed he did not go to the General's private residence or take any further steps. General Seymour knew nothing of the matter until a regular application for leave from Captain O'Beirne, which was sent in on the 20th was received on the 21st. It was immediately granted. Then there is a telegram from General Seymour himself to the Military Secretary here— Captain O'Beirne's application for leave was from the 22nd to the 29th instant, or until the declaration of the poll for the county Leitrim, and was at once granted by me. No blame attaches here. He never took the trouble to come to me personally, nor did I hear all this until yesterday. Have never refused leave here. Therefore, it is clear, that so far as the Military authorities in Ireland are concerned they have not interfered with this gentleman either on military grounds or on the ground, of his politics. So far as the Government are concerned I hope I need not say that they have had nothing whatever to say to the question. The subject of leave is a matter of discipline in the Army, and does not come before the Secretary of War at all; and it was quite obvious to me, when the hon. and gallant Member applied to me on the subject, that my first duty was to ascertain what had occurred in Ireland, and that I had no right to interfere with the discipline of the Army or to take any steps until I knew what had been done. It appears now that Captain O'Beirne was delayed by his own fault, because he had permission to obtain leave earlier if he chose, but did not ask until the 21st, and then immediately received the leave which he applied for.

CAPTAIN NOLAN

I trust the House will permit me to offer a few words of explanation. The Secretary of State for War has overwhelmed me with telegrams and Reports, received since I brought this question before the House. What has happened out of the House is this—and it shows the importance of bringing these questions before the House, for although I waited 44 hours after bringing this matter under the notice of the Government, the only information I received was of a meagre and unsatisfactory character. But the moment this question is before the House, I am, as I have said, overwhelmed with Reports and telegrams. Now, Sir, the course I pursued has been stated to a great extent by the Secretary of State for War. I applied to him at 4 o'clock on Monday, but until Wednesday, at 12 o'clock, I received no information as to what had been done in Ireland; and when I did receive some information then from an official telegram, it was that the officer could only receive leave for seven days, which was quite insufficient to conduct a county election. The Secretary of State has admitted that my Question was down on the Paper on Tuesday, when the right hon. Gentleman was here, and at his request I postponed it. And I postponed my Question in the most formal manner by public Notice in this House. The words I used, following the advice of a Member who sat near me, were—"I will postpone the Question until this evening, or, if more convenient, until to-morrow." So that the right hon. Gentleman had full Notice of it. I certainly knew he was at Shoeburyness, as I publicly stated in the House yesterday. The right hon. Gentleman says this is a military question; but I think it is sufficiently political for any other Mi- nister to have given me an answer. The inference the House may draw is, that there has been a great deal of friction between different Departments, as it took 44 hours to obtain a telegram. I cannot say whether it was the fault of the Government, of the General in Ireland, or of the Colonel. Even if I could, I should be sorry to do so. All I can point out is, that there has been a great deal of friction and delay which, so far as it extended to telegraphic messages, seems to have been totally removed as soon as the question became one not of letting an opposition candidate go to the poll, but of vindicating the Ministry. We then had a full Report. As to Captain O'Beirne's applying for leave or not, that is the very question on which I asked for information, which I could not obtain. It is evident, however, from the Secretary for War's statement, that he did make an application; and an officer asking for leave to contest a county, and surrounded by military authorities—let me inform the House from personal experience—is in a very different position from a Member speaking in this House under privileges which have grown up during 400 or 500 years, and which are very necessary for the protection of some individuals.