HC Deb 16 June 1876 vol 229 cc2019-22

SUPPLY—considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Motion made, and Question proposed, That a sum, not exceeding £109,194, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Expenses of the several Scientific Departments of the Navy, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1877.


objected to their proceeding at so late an hour with so important a matter. There had been a promise given that the details of the Estimates would not be taken after half-past 11.


said, that was what he certainly had promised, but they had been taken by surprise by a "Scotch invasion," which, however, had only lasted until three minutes beyond the hour he had fixed upon. If it was thought he should not go on, the time arranged only being exceeded by three minutes, of course he must agree to report Progress; but if the Committee was willing to go on he should be glad.


thought half-past 11 was too late. The Navy Estimates should be brought on at an earlier hour. Several of the Representatives of the Dockyards—Members who wished to take part in the discussion—were not present, and he should therefore move that Progress be reported.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."—(Mr. Rylands.)


said, some of them who represented Dockyard towns had sat there for hours waiting for these Votes to come on, and it was hard that, after what was called a "Scotch invasion," and the discussion of questions of no very great interest, those Members interested in the Navy Votes should be prevented discussing them.


said, they had not interposed in the discussion, wishing to save time, but he thought it must be admitted half-past 11 was a late hour to go into Committee. He therefore thought there was reason in the Motion of the hon. Member for Burnley; but, at the same time, he sympathized with the right hon. Gentleman.


felt obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for his friendly remarks; but he must feel that at that late period of the Session it was difficult to arrange the Business. He thought after the previous discussions on the Navy Estimates the Committee might be willing to continue them, but he could not object to the Motion. He would try to arrange that the Navy Estimates should come on upon a future day at an earlier hour. But his right hon. Friend the Secretary for War wished, before Progress was reported, to propose a Vote for the Army.


I hope the hon. Member opposite (Mr. Ramsay), who is anxious to promote Scotch Busi- ness, will see that he has taken up another day which they might have had for Scotch Business.


I may fairly say I did not know that the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy was about to mention this matter, and I was no party to any delay. I wish to say, however, that no Scotch business should have been treated in the way the hon. Member for Plymouth (Mr. Sampson Lloyd) has spoken in this House of our business. I do not see that Scottish business should be spoken of as a "Scotch invasion," or that such remarks should be made on Scotch affairs. I feel it necessary to make a protest against being treated in that fashion. It will not tend to allay the discontent already existing if we are told we must stand over until the dockyard constituencies' affairs are discussed.


said, he had no desire whatever to interfere with naval Business. He did not wish to do so, though he felt there was a risk of that result, and took counsel on the subject, and was led to believe that there was an objection to taking the Naval Votes at so late an hour. He understood the English Poor Law Bill could be taken any time before 12 o'clock, and hoped it would be taken.


said, it would be a mistake to suppose that the hon. Gentleman the Member for Kirkcaldy had taken counsel with him or any of his Friends sitting on the front bench.


thought the Home Secretary had gone out of his way to taunt the hon. Member for Falkirk as having taken up one of the nights which might have been available otherwise for Scotch Business, merely because he made some remarks about Scotch Business. No time had been lost in making those remarks, except the time the remarks took in being delivered. They were not going away. There were more than 24 Orders on the Paper, and he had no doubt the House would sit till 2 o'clock, using the whole of the time in other work.


feared that in consequence of the time which had been lost by English and Scotch Members it would be impossible that night to go on with the Poor Law Rating (Ireland) Bill.


said, he would withdraw his motion, in order that, as had been suggested, the Secretary for War might take a Vote.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Original Motion, by leave, withdrawn.