HC Deb 07 April 1876 vol 228 cc1466-9

Motion made, and Question proposed,

"That a sum, not exceeding £218,663, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1877, for the Expenses of Her Majesty's Embassies and Missions Abroad."

MR. MONK

inquired whether it would not be better to take something on account, in order that another opportunity might be afforded of discussing the Vote in detail?

MR. W. H. SMITH

said, there had been an understanding that the Navy Estimates were to be proceeded with that evening, but it was considered desirable to go on with the Civil Service Estimates. He did not, however, wish the Committee to take any Votes that they might not be prepared to take.

MR. RYLANDS

asked the Government not to press the Vote until further accounts of the details in a tabular form were furnished as formerly.

MR. BOURKE

replied that no such details had been furnished—certainly, in the last three years.

MR. RYLANDS

said, he would not object to a Vote on Account, but must oppose the Vote in bulk.

MR. MACDONALD

asked for some explanation of the heavy charge for boundary surveys, as America and other countries did not expend half that sum for such purposes.

MR. M'LAREN

supported the suggestion of the hon. Member for Gloucester (Mr. Monk), that a Vote should be taken on account only, leaving the discussion on these items till another day.

In reply to Lord FREDERICK CAVENDISH,

MR. BOURKE

said, that it was intended to change the Mission at Rome into an Embassy, in which case an increased salary would, no doubt, be necessary for the holder of that office. Other changes would produce a like result. It was hoped that the whole of this kind of work would be accomplished satisfactorily, and without unnecessary expense. He would also inform the hon. Member for Stafford (Mr. Macdonald) that the Votes with reference to boundary surveys had resulted from the recommendations of the Boundary Commission, and he had reason to believe that that would be the last demand on the public purse for that purpose.

SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFFmoved to reduce the Vote by the sum of £ 11,400 for Second Secretaries and £3,100 for Third Secretaries, making in all £14,500.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That a sum, not exceeding £204,163, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1877, for the Expenses of Her Majesty's Embassies and Missions Abroad."—(Sir Henry Drummond Wolff.)

MR. SAMPSON LLOYD

drew attention to a sum of £950 for the Charge ďAffaires at the small German town of Coburg.

MR. DODDS

said, he was dissatisfied that more satisfactory details were not given of the way in which the money comprised in the Vote was spent.

MR. W. H. SMITH

promised to give full information with regard to the details of the Vote as soon as possible.

MR. MONK

said, he was not satisfied. The House of Commons should be furnished with accurate information, and he submitted that the Vote should be withdrawn until satisfactory information was given.

SIR JOSEPH M'KENNA

agreed in that opinion.

MR. WHITWELL

said, he would move to report Progress.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."—(Mr. Whitwell.)

MR. BOURKE

explained that the Estimate was as full as the information at his command enabled him to make it, and that it was perfectly true; but if it was required he would in future go as far as possible into details.

MR. RYLANDS

said, that the Estimates for 1869 were in his hands, and he found all the particulars connected with the Vote fully set forth.

MR. W. H. SMITH

said, that many of these items could only be estimated on the expenditure of the previous year.

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

hoped, as the Government had brought forward the Estimates so early, that they would be able to allow the Committee a further opportunity of considering them.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Question again proposed, That a sum, not exceeding £204,163, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1877, for the Expenses of Her Majesty's Embassies and Missions Abroad.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, the details asked for by some hon. Gentlemen had been promised as Returns which would be presented to the House. It would be a pity, after going on so long with the discussion, not to come to a decision that night. If it was understood, as he was now informed it was, that no opposed business Votes would be taken, the Vote would not be pressed. They would require, however, to take Votes on Account.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Original Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

£1,254,650, on account, for Civil Services 1876–77.

[Then the Services are severally set forth.]

House resumed.

Resolution to be reported upon Monday next;

Committee to sit again upon Monday next.