HC Deb 28 June 1875 vol 225 cc700-4

(Mr. Attorney General.)

[BILL 105.] [Lords.] COMMITTEE.

Order for Committee read.

Bill considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Clause 1 (Short title.)

MR. RATHBONE

wished to make an appeal to the Government. He thought there should be some system of transfer for small properties, which the Bill did not effect.

THE CHAIRMAN

pointed out that the question before the Committee was the first clause, relating to the title of the Bill, to which point the observations of the hon. Gentleman must be addressed.

MR. RATHBONE

said, the title of the Bill was not a correct one, for the measure did not carry out the cheap transfer of land. It was most important that the Government should take time, and should avail themselves of their immense power in order to produce a real Bill which should provide for the cheap transfer of land in small as well as large quantities. He suggested that the Bill should be postponed until next Session.

SIR GEORGE BOWYER

agreed with much that had been said by the hon. Member for Liverpool. You did not simplify a title by registering it. To simplify a title to real property you must make it rather more like the title to personalty, and abolish the distinction between legal and equitable estates.

THE CHAIRMAN

again pointed out that the question before the Committee was not the general principle of the Bill, and called attention to the inconvenience of renewing discussions on the principle of the Bill upon every clause.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 2 (Application of Act).

MR. OSBORNE MORGAN

said, he had given Notice of an Amendment the object of which was to include customary freeholds in the Bill. Many of these were freeholds in every respect except in name, the only difference being that they were held at a small quit-rent; a case which would be provided for by the 1st sub-section of the 18th clause. Some, however, might be practically copyholds, and as they would be dealt with by the Amendment of the hon. Member for West Sussex (Mr. Gregory), he would withdraw his own proposal in favour of that of his hon. Friend.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. GREGORY

moved, as an Amendment, in page 1, line 14, after "freehold" to insert— in any case in which an admission or any act by the lord of the manor is necessary to per- fect the title of a purchase from the customary tenant.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 3 agreed to.

Clause 4 (Construction of terms of Act).

On the Motion of Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL, Amendment made, in page 2, after line 11, add— The definition of land contained in the Act of the thirteenth and fourteenth years of the reign of Her present Majesty, chapter twenty-one, intituled 'An Act for shortening the language used in Acts of Parliament,' shall not apply to this Act.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 5 (Application for registration with an absolute title or with a possessory title only).

MR. OSBORNE MORGAN

moved an Amendment enabling any trustee with absolute power of sale to register himself under the Act.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

said, the case was provided for in Clause 7.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. GREGORY

proposed an Amendment with a similar object, believing that the clause ought to describe all the classes of persons who would be entitled to avail themselves of it.

Amendment negatived.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 6 (Evidence of title required on application).

On the Motion of Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL, Amendment made, in page 2, line 37, by inserting after "notices," "if any."

Clause as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 7 to 16, inclusive, agreed to.

Clause 17 (Regulations as to examination of title by registrar).

SIR GEORGE BOWYER

suggested that the wording of the clause should be made more definite with respect to the form of notice required to be given by objectors to the registrar.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 18 (Liability of registered land to easements and certain other rights).

MR. ALFRED MARTEN

proposed an Amendment, the object of which was to protect the rights of lords of manors in respect of mines and minerals.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

hoped his hon. and learned Friend would withdraw the Amendment, as it was unnecessary.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 19 to 40, inclusive, agreed to.

Clause 41 (Transmission on death of freehold land).

MR. OSBORNE MORGAN

moved, as an Amendment, in page 14, line 4, to leave out from "such persons" to end of clause, and insert— The heir-at-law or the devisee in fee simple (as the case may be) of such sole registered proprietor, or of the survivor of such joint proprietors, shall be entitled to be registered as proprietor in his place.

MR. JACKSON

thought the Amendment would make matters rather worse than they were under the clause.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. JACKSON

moved the insertion of words providing that if no person has been appointed by a deceased proprietor of registered land to take his place on the register, or if such person be unwilling to act, the executor or administrator of the deceased proprietor shall be entitled to be registered. This Amendment would greatly encourage and cheapen the registration of small properties.

Amendment proposed. In page 14, line 5, to leave out from the words "may, on the application," to the end of the Clause, and insert the words "such sole deceased proprietor or the survivor of such joint proprietors has by will or codicil appointed in that behalf. If no person has been so appointed, or if the person so appointed is unwilling to act, or there is any obstacle or impediment in the way of his registration, the executor or administrator of such sole deceased proprietor or of the survivor of such joint proprietors shall be entitled to be registered as proprietor in his place: Provided, That nothing in this section shall render any such executor or administrator liable in respect of such land to the payment of any duty charged on probate or letters of administration,"—(Mr. Jackson,) —instead thereof.

Question proposed, "That the words 'may, on the application,' stand part of the Clause."

SIR GEORGE BOWYER,

considering the importance of the clause and the ad- vanced hour—a quarter to 1 o'clock—said, he would move to report Progress.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."—(Sir George Bowyer.)

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

expressed a hope that the Bill would be proceeded with.

SIR GEORGE BOWYER

said, he re garded the clause as a most dangerous one, involving a serious and questionable change in the existing law. He would, however, withdraw the Motion for reporting Progress.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. MORGAN LLOYD

pointed out that the question was a most important one, and hoped it would be possible in some way or other to avoid the great expenses which would be involved before the registrar.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

opposed the Amendment. The object of the hon. and learned Member was to lessen the expense of registration; but he did not think that the Amendment would make it less costly than the clause as it stood. He intended to move an Amendment which he thought would meet the case better than the Amendment of the hon. and learned Member.

Original Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes 86; Noes 46: Majority 40.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."—(Mr. Morgan Lloyd).

Motion agreed to.

House resumed.

Committee report Progress; to sit again on Thursday.