SUPPLY—ARMY ESTIMATES. (Hansard, 5 April 1875)

§ COLONEL ALEXANDER
said, he would take advantage of that occasion to say that when the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for War announced the retirement of the present Chaplain General to the Forces, on whose distinguished services he had passed a high eulogium, he had not informed the House who was to be his successor. It had, however, been naturally inferred, and he (Colonel Alexander) ventured to point out, that gentlemen with the necessary qualifications for the post were to be found among the existing chaplains of the Army of the first class. He did not wish to draw invidious distinctions, but taking the names of the first six gentlemen in that class—the Ven. Archdeacon Wright, who had served 21 years, including service in the Crimea; the Rev. J. E. Sabin, who served in the East in 1854; the Rev. C. Green, who had been in the service since 1846; the Rev. H. Huleatt, who had served in 1854 in the Crimea, and in China from 1857 to 1859, when he was dangerously wounded; the Rev. C. J. Hort, the Rev. E. J. Rogers, and the Rev. E. Halpin, chaplain to the Forces in London—he found 323 they had served for long periods in the most meritorious manner. He considered, therefore, they had been very unfairly treated in being passed over in favour of a gentleman who, however distinguished, had no connection whatever with the Army. Notwithstanding their gallant, distinguished, and meritorious services, it appeared that they were considered totally incompetent to perform the duties of Chaplain General to the Forces; at least, as much might be inferred from the circumstance that a civilian had been selected for the appointment, for a retired colonial Bishop had been appointed, who had, he believed, written a very interesting treatise on the Thirty-nine Articles, and also some letters to Lord Derby on the subject of Convocation. The six chaplains to whom he had referred were, under the circumstances, he could not help thinking, entitled to say "Other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours." Sic vos non vobis nidificatis aves. A slur had, he was afraid, been cast upon them which would tend to humiliate them in the eyes of the Army.

§ COLONEL NORTH
said, he felt bound to state that the new appointment was one which had given the greatest pain to the Army, although he felt confident his right hon. Friend at the head of the "War Office never contemplated that it would have had any such result. In the case of Archdeacon Wright, especially, it had been regarded as a slur. He had always regretted that when the Army returned from Ashantee, when others were receiving rewards, nothing was done for the chaplains who accompanied the troops. He hoped the subject would yet be considered by those who had the means of rewarding merit by promotion in the Church.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, the observations which had just been made on the subject had taken him quite by surprise, and he must disclaim the slightest intention of casting any slur on the chaplains of the Army. In selecting the person who had been chosen, he had acted solely from a desire to do that which would best promote the interests of the chaplains themselves, for it was pressed upon him that difficulties had constantly arisen when Episcopal authority was desirable, and, indeed, the Chaplain General had to exercise, 324 to a certain extent, quasi-episcopal functions on many occasions; and he was advised that it was desirable, in consequence, that a person possessing the requisite authority in that respect should be selected for the office. Those were his sole reasons for making the selection to which objection was taken, for he was quite as much alive as his hon. and gallant Friends to the services which had been rendered to the country by the chaplains of the Army both at home and abroad.

§ GENERAL SHUTE
expressed a hope that the eminent services of Archdeacon Wright, who was at the head of the list, would receive some recognition.

§ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK
said, no body of men deserved better of the Army or of the country than the Army chaplains, and, whilst giving the right hon. Gentleman credit for his good intentions, he could not help thinking that the selection of a gentleman altogether outside the Army would be regarded by many of them as most painful and invidious. The late Chaplain General's great value to the Army arose from the long knowledge of soldiers which he acquired during the Peninsular War; and amongst the military chaplains now superseded there were many who had established strong claims in the same manner.

§ COLONEL ALEXANDER
suggested the expediency of increasing the salaries of the officials of military prisons, and especially the salaries of the governors and the chief warders, who had duties thrown on them requiring great prudence, tact, and moderation, combined with firmness, for their due performance. Notwithstanding the great rise in the price of provisions, their salaries had not been raised for 25 years. He hoped that next year the Government would be able to see their way to raising the salaries of the governors from a maximum of £350 to one of £400, and those of the chief warders from 5s. 8d. to 6s. 6d. per day.

§ MR. DUNBAR
appealed to the Secretary of State for War to give some 325 assurance that the grievances of the medical officers of the Army, which he understood were now under the right hon. Gentleman's consideration, would he redressed as speedily as possible, whether by the issue of a new Warrant or otherwise.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, the case of the medical men had been constantly under his consideration, but there was so much difference among those gentlemen themselves as to what their grievances were, and also as to how they ought to be met, that it was difficult to arrive at a clear judgment on the question. He found himself deluged with pamphlets, in which the most opposite views were urged, and these were all of them written by men of eminence in their profession. There were, however, some points in reference to which he should be able to grant some advantages, and he hoped to be able to do that in the course of the present year.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, he proposed to postpone the Vote for the Militia, in consequence of the absence at quarter sessions of some hon. Members who would have taken part in the discussion of it. He would give Notice of the day on which it should come on.

§ COLONEL ALEXANDER
said, that the horse tax, from which the Yeomanry Cavalry used to be exempt, having been abolished, that Force had now no special encouragement offered to it. He would like to know whether the right hon. Gentleman was prepared to give some further encouragement to men to come forward to serve in the Force?

§ MR. F. STANLEY
said, his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War had under his consideration various schemes for the amelioration of the Yeomanry Cavalry, and it was his intention very shortly to appoint a Committee, consisting partly of officers of the Yeomanry, partly of Members of both Houses of Parliament, and partly of officers of the Army, which would meet at the end of that week, or shortly afterwards, to inquire into the various points that were necessary for bringing the Yeomanry into harmony with the other defensive Forces of the country. It was 326 probable that among the various matters brought before them, there would be that of the difference made in the position of the Yeomanry by the abolition of the horse tax.

§ MR. GOURLEY
believed that under the present system the money voted for the Yeomanry was entirely thrown away. They were brought out only seven days in the course of the year, and their actual drill did not exceed four and a-half days, which was quite insufficient to make the Force what it ought to be. He would suggest that it should be trained in conjunction with some of the other Forces of the country.

§ GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR
asked the Secretary for War if he would add in future in the Appendix to the Army Estimates a statement of the Forces of Volunteers, Yeomanry, and Militia, so as to show the establishments by ranks and numbers of the Militia Artillery and Militia Infantry regiments; also of the Volunteer battalions and Yeomanry, classifying them each under the counties to which belonging, or in which raised, with the number of companies, batteries, and troops? He believed that this information would be of advantage by showing the extent of Forces available in the several localities, and facilitate the labours of those who might wish to show how easy it was to increase these Forces.

§ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK
hoped the Committee which was about to sit would be directed to take into special consideration the position of Adjutant in the Yeomanry.

§ GENERAL SHUTE
said, he could not agree with the belief that had been stated by the hon. Member for Sunderland (Mr. Gourley). He was of opinion that the Yeomanry had within it the elements of rare usefulness. He had made many notes respecting several corps; but as a Committee was to be appointed, it would be needlessly taking up time to enter into the subject now.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, that the Committee which would inquire into the matters which seemed to prejudice the usefulness of the Yeomanry would be an informal body, composed of gentlemen connected with that service and of Members of both Houses. To a remark of the hon. and gallant General opposite (Sir George Balfour) he replied that, as the prospective strength of the 327 Yeomanry was given in the general annual Return of the British Army, there was no need to give it in the Vote.

§ LORD ELCHO
said, he would suggest that it might be advantageous to have the Yeomanry drilled on the same principle as Colonel Bowyer's Hampshire Horse. An officer had declared, after inspecting the latter, that—although it might be heresy on his part—he was bound to say that with a considerable force of men so trained, it would be impossible for an enemy's artillery to traverse the country.

§ LIEUT-COLONEL NAGHTEN
said, that the uniform of a Volunteer Artillery officer was exactly the same as that of an officer of the Militia Artillery. He would suggest there ought to be some distinction; for as one of the latter, he had been taken for an officer in the Volunteers. The state of the uniform of some of the corps ought to be taken into consideration and improved. In some instances it was very bad.

§ SIR ANDREW LUSK
held that the Volunteers ought to receive a little more encouragement than they did. They formed a public force of 160,000 men ready to serve in defence of the country, and gave a great deal of time and labour to qualify themselves for military duty. Government, in fact, had treated them very hardly, for it required them to be efficient—to be equal, in truth, in some respects, to men of the Line—but nothing was said about a little more allowance to pay expenses. He feared conscription would yet become necessary in this country, and, perhaps, the evil day might be averted by being a little less stingy to the Volunteers. He had no present proposal to make; but he thought the amount of the Vote might be profitably increased.

§ MR. GOURLEY
thought the efficiency of the Volunteers would be increased if they were required to bind themselves for six months instead of, as at present, for only 14 days, and if they were drilled for seven days annually with the men of 328 the Line and of the Militia. There was an item of £2,800 for "payments to clerks of lieutenancy," and, as the duties formerly performed by these officers of issuing commissions was now done through the War Office, and not through them, he would move that the Vote be reduced by that sum. These gentlemen were receiving £75 a-year in Militia regiments, and £55 a-year in Volunteer regiments, for which they literally did nothing.

§ GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR
supported the Amendment, and most sincerely hoped that the hated and vile Continental system of conscription would not be resorted to in this country, except in the case of absolute necessity, and, in order to guard against any pressure, he trusted that the Government would avail themselves of an efficient organization, equal to that which which the Foreign Governments have been obliged to establish over the country for the purpose of conscripting the young men, so as to secure the services of volunteers as far as possible instead of waiting till forced to resort to that most objectionable expedient. Such a course would be unnecessary if encouragement was given to the raising of local Volunteers and Yeomanry, and sufficient publicity given as to the places in which they were located. With that view, he should be glad if the Government would consent to furnish Returns of the number of the battalions, batteries, and corps of Militia, Yeomanry, and Volunteer regiments and of the districts in which they were raised, together with the number of males of the Militia age within these various areas, in order that the nation might be alive to the extensive resources in men which could be utilized in case of need in defence of the country.

§ MR. WHITWELL
said, that the number of Volunteer sergeants drawing the additional £2 10s. for having passed their examination showed a considerable increase of efficiency in the Force, which afforded a very excellent substitute for conscription in this country. He thought the public were scarcely aware of the great pains taken by these sergeants to 329 enable them to pass their examination. He also thought that the Volunteers should be utilized more than they had been hitherto; and that the different Forces in the various brigade districts should be drilled together more frequently than they were at present, under the command of the military officer in charge of the district.

§ LORD ELCHO
said, that if the position of adjutants of the Yeomanry with regard to retirement were taken into consideration, he hoped the position of the adjutants of the Volunteers would also be considered, with the view of placing them on the same footing as adjutants of the Militia. The hon. Baronet the Member for Finsbury (Sir Andrew Lush) had spoken very kindly of the Volunteer Force; but he had used expressions from which it might be inferred that its members were paid for their services. He (Lord Elcho) wished it to be clearly understood that the Volunteers received nothing for their services, and that the whole of the capitation grant was expended in defraying the regimental expenses. When the late Secretary for War, instead of increasing the general capitation grant to the Volunteers, proposed to pay an additional sum of £2 10s. for every Volunteer officer and sergeant that passed his examination, he confessed that he had not sufficient faith in their zeal and that he thought that the scheme would fail. He was happy, however, to say that Lord Cardwell was right and that he was wrong in the opinion they had formed on the subject. He thanked the present Secretary for War for the concession he had made during the past year in permitting Volunteer officers who had served in their regiments for a certain period to retain their rank and to continue to wear their uniforms after they had ceased to take an active part in the corps. In this manner, gentlemen would be able to keep up a most beneficial connection with the corps in which they had formerly served. In his opinion the present capitation grant was sufficient.

§ COLONEL MAKINS
asked for increased opportunities for the Artillery Volunteers at Shoeburyness to pass a week in camp. Hitherto they had always been crowded, and he was aware that space was small; but there might with advantage be three or four meetings in the year. He also would ask whether the 330 Government could not see its way, instead of giving an increase of capitation grant, to serve out great coats to the Volunteers, so as to enable them to drill with more comfort in the winter months.

§ COLONEL MURE
considered the Volunteer adjutants had just cause of complaint. In many respects they were in a worse position than the adjutants of Militia, and in some parts of the country they had an enormous amount of work to perform. He would also suggest the advisability of increasing the sum granted for regimental camps. From his own experience, these camps were most serviceable. They increased the popularity of the service, and by bringing men and officers together for a longer period tended towards better discipline, good conduct, and sobriety. His own battalion in the neighbourhood of Glasgow had had one of these camps for the last two years. The rank and file performed all their own civil work, and upwards of 300 officers and men, together with himself, slept in the camp every night. The result of the continued drill of 14 days in the one year and 10 days in the other was very remarkable. It made a battalion which had always been considered fairly efficient very efficient indeed. By it the men were better kept up to practice, more orderly, and the officers had a better opportunity of becoming personally acquainted with them. He further thought it would be of great advantage if some small subsidy was granted for great coats. These could be kept in the drill-shed, and the effect, in his opinion, would be not only to induce men to join a corps, but those already connected with it would attend drill oftener. As to the question of officers retaining their rank after leaving a regiment, he would suggest that old quartermasters of the regular Army should have the same privilege accorded to them which had been given to the Volunteer officers.

§ MR. A. P. VIVIAN
pointed out that when the corps composing an administrative battalion were situate at a great distance from one another, the work imposed on the adjutants was enormous.

§ SIR ANDREW LUSK
said, that inasmuch as the rank and file of the Volunteers gave much valuable time and labour to this service they ought to be fairly recognized, and he did not see why they should do their work for nothing, 331 besides having in so many cases to pay money out of their own pockets.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, that some of the suggestions which had been though useful in themselves, might wait a little while longer for consideration and adoption if thought advisable. He thought that every reasonable encouragement should be given to the Volunteers; but he was surprised that the hon. Baronet the Member for Finsbury should propose to give them pay, which would deprive them of their Volunteer character, and hoped he would use his influence with his friends to increase their liberality in other directions in which they were not so ready to bestow it. The question of their payment must be considered, if at all, on some other occasion than the present. As to regimental camps, he agreed with the hon. and gallant Member opposite (Colonel Mure) that they were useful and popular, and he was anxious, therefore, that they should be encouraged. No pressure, however, had been put upon the War Office to furnish an additional number of them. With regard to the Motion of the hon. Member for Sunderland (Mr. Gourley), he wished to state that it was necessary to keep the clerks of lieutenancy in existence as long as we had to consider the quota of the Militia. The whole question of quotas would, however, have to be considered at some future time, though not during the present Session, with a view to the system being placed on a better footing. With regard to the Volunteer adjutants, there had been considerable delay in consequence of the change of the Inspector General of the Auxiliary Forces, and things had not gone on so fast as they would have done if Sir Garnet Wolseley had remained in England. The adjutants had accepted their office subject to the existing conditions on which they held it, and although there were some anomalies, there was nothing exceptional in their position generally. The whole question was, however, being carefully considered. With respect to the suggestion of his hon. and gallant Friend behind him (Colonel Makins), that an extension of time should be given for Volunteer Artillery practice at Shoeburyness, he had to say that their practice there had at all times been most favourably reported upon; but it was feared that to 332 give more time would interfere with the necessary training and practice of the regular Artillery. The matter had, however, been brought under his notice, and he should be most anxious, as far as he could, to meet the desire which had been expressed. The question as to great coats would require grave consideration.

§ LORD ELCHO
asked the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for War to specify the proportion of men contained in the different classes, distinguishing them from Enrolled Pensioners.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, the number of men in the First Class of 1870 was 7,676, and Class 1 of 1867, who were dying out, numbered 153—making 7,829; Class 2 of 1867 comprised 676 men; the Reserve of 1859, 1,991 men; and Enrolled Pensioners, 19,328—total, 21,995. That did not include the Militia Reserve. Class 2 of the Reserve were not liable to service abroad.

§ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK
said, that there was considerable question as to the real existence of these Reserves. He could not say that he shared in that apprehension. He believed that in all cases where they had been actually called out, they had responded to almost the whole of their strength. A rumour, however, had gone abroad that in Ireland last year, when 500 of the First Army Reserve were called out, not more than 50 responded to the call, the fact being that the men were not ordered to come out, but offered the option of doing so.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, the First Class Army Reserve had never been called out peremptorily. They were merely asked to volunteer on the occasion referred to.

§ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK
said, he thought it worth while considering whether something might not be done to ascertain that these Reserves were really effective, and could be relied upon when they were wanted. At present it was thought advisable that they should not be called out unless there was some strong necessity; but it would be well to arrange that the whole body of Reserve 333 should be called out once a-year for three or four days, so that the country might have some evidence of their existence.

§ COLONEL MURE
said, there had been a misapprehension throughout the country with regard to the First Class Army Reserve. He had heard an extraordinary rumour to the effect that if the Reserve Force failed to come out in time of war, there was an actual intention on the part of the authorities to offer them bounties as an inducement to them to fulfil their contracts. There had always been a presentiment in the country that although these men might come out to play, they might not come out for work. It was well known that we drew the men for our Army from a very low section of the labouring classes, and it was also well known that desertion from the Army was not looked on as a serious offence. That showed that there was an excessively low moral tone in the Army, and that being so, it was a question whether the men of the Reserve Force would come out in the event of their being actually required. Reserves were very admirable when they had a higher class of men—for example, in countries where they had the conscription—but in this country they recruited mere lads, who, going into the Army with hardly any tie connecting them to respectable civil life, could hardly be expected to have any whatever by the time they got into the Reserve Force. The authorities had no control over these men. A great many of them would be physically unfit for service, a great many would probably not come out, and probably only a few good men would be forthcoming. The rumour as to the bounties to which he had referred had come to him on authority he could not ignore, and therefore it was that he mentioned it to the Committee. [Mr. GATHORNE HARDY dissented.] He was glad to see the Secretary for War shake his head at it; because it showed that he, at all events, did not contemplate such a monstrous and demoralizing course of procedure. If anything of the kind were intended, he thought it should be stated at once, but to resort to it on an emergency as a bribe to men to join the Army and fulfil their contracts would be simply offering a premium on military felony.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
thought the sooner he replied to the statement 334 the better. It was news to him to learn that anybody proposed to give a bounty to men to join their colours who were already bound to do so when required without any bounty. There was no truth in the rumour referred to; though, of course, it might become necessary hereafter to alter the conditions of service in the Reserve, and in that case, perhaps something would have to be done.

§ SIR ANDREW LUSK
wished to ask, why we were to find pay for 12,000 enrolled pensioners in Western Australia? One would think the Western Australians would themselves pay for their own war requirements. What were these men doing? Perhaps they were attending to the sheep in the back country.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, they were attending to the black sheep we sent out there. That remark applied to those under letter D. The others were effective men, who were nut enrolled in the sense of being enrolled in the Army but were effective men for garrison or the easier duties of a soldier's life, if their services should be required.

§ GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR
said, as this Vote showed the recent change in the designations of the officers of the Supply Department, he regretted the alteration, and that it should have been decided to abolish the Control Department. It was formed during the former administration of the present Prime Minister, and during the earlier portion of its existence, from the support and aid it had first received, it had been found so efficient in keeping down our military expenditure. He must say that it had been subjected to opposition from quarters bound to aid it, and it had failed to receive that formation which would have rendered the control permanently useful. All he could add was, that he hoped the Secretary of State would provide some machinery by which that tendency to increased military expenditure which came every day under his notice would be kept down.

§ MR. GOURLEY
said, it was perfectly outrageous that the taxpayers of the country should be called upon to pay persons for molesting innocent women, as he considered the police did in enforcing the provisions of the Contagious Diseases Acts. He wished to prevent such cases as that of the late Mrs. Percy, the actress, who committed suicide rather than come under the operation of those Acts. In that view, he should move the reduction of the Vote by the sum of £4,750, the expenses of the police in carrying them out.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, it was impossible to bring in these Estimates without putting in the charge in question. He was acting under an Act of Parliament which provided that that should be done, and as long as that Act remained unrepealed in putting this sum on the Estimates he was only discharging a Ministerial duty. Further, it was absurd to pass an Act for a certain purpose, and then to refuse the money necessary to carry out that Act. The whole question, however, would be soon raised by a right hon. Gentleman who was about to bring in a Bill on the subject, and when that time came, he (Mr. Hardy) would be prepared to express his opinion. The hon. and gallant Gentleman opposite (Sir George Balfour) was under a misapprehension in thinking that the Control Department had been abolished. It was only the name, which had led to an infinity of confusion and jealousy, that was taken away, and the change had been made with the most cordial agreement on both sides. The same control as before would be exercised, but under a different form.

§ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK
desired to call the attention of the right hon. Gentleman to the Transport branch of the Commissariat. There were a few officers connected with that branch, and they were placed in a very anomalous and undesirable position, owing to the changes which had been made, by which that branch of the Service was no longer separate and distinct. It was manifest 336 that in ease of a war that branch, must be suddenly extended, and that could only be carried out by the officers connected with the branch itself.

§ LORD EUSTACE CECIL
said, it was impossible that an amalgamation like that which had been effected in the Commissariat and Control Departments could have taken place without in dividual hardships. Accordingly, many such cases had come before him since he had the honour of occupying the position which he now filled. So far as they had been able, they had taken the most pressing cases into consideration, but he was bound to confess it was almost impossible to go back five years without doing great injustice to many other officers. It was intended to keep the Transport branch as separate as possible from the Commissariat; and as a good deal had lately been said about exchanges, he might add that no exchange between the Commissariat and Transport officers would be allowed except in particular cases. With regard to entrance into the Service, the same rules would be observed as before. A certain number would enter by competition, and a certain number would be drawn from officers of the Army, and from non-commissioned officers. Those most competent to judge were not altogether satisfied with the experiment made in 1870. He could assure the hon. Baronet that his suggestions with regard to the Transport service would receive the fullest consideration.

§ LORD ELCHO
said, that having served on the Abyssinian Committee, he would remind his noble Friend the Surveyor General of the Ordnance, that very valuable evidence had been given by Sir William Power as to the importance of the Army sea transport being under the Control Department, and not under the Navy.

§ SIR ANDERW LUSK
said, that those who had opposed the Contagious Diseases Act would be placed in a false position if they now voted for this£4,750 for the police to carry out the Act, and must go against it. As to the general question of transport of stores, he, as a City man of business, thought it a very simple matter, involving no difficulties whatever.

§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN
said, this was a statutory payment, and this was not the proper time to take exception to it. The money paid to the 337 police was paid under the provisions of certain Acts of Parliament, and they must first repeal those Acts before they could refuse to put their provisions into effect. In the course of a few weeks an opportunity would be afforded to the House of expressing its opinion whether it was desirable to continue them any longer.

§ SIR ANDREW LUSK
indignantly repudiated the hon. Gentleman's attempt to stifle discussion on this Vote by telling hon. Members that it was a statutory payment under an Act of Parliament. The Committee had the fullest right to criticize the Vote, and, if they pleased, to say "No" to it, in the teeth of any Act of Parliament, or why was it in the Vote?

§ MR. ANDERSON
said, he was quite surprised to hear from the hon. Member for the Stirling Burghs (Mr. Campbell-Bannerman) that that was not the proper time to cavil at the Vote. Such a statement was all the more remarkable coming as it did from the front Opposition Bench. The Votes were brought before them for the very purpose of cavilling at them. He should, in that case, like to know what was the proper time for considering it, if not when the Vote was proposed for work to be done next year. If the money were not voted the work could not be done, and no other harm would ensue; and, therefore, he should certainly vote for the Amendment of his hon. Friend.

§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN
said, he did not mean to dispute the right of hon. Members to discuss Votes in Committee. He would repeat that the proper mode was not to object to the sum, but to the Acts under which it was payable. If it was alleged that the Acts were improperly administered—if, for instance, too many policemen were employed—it was quite proper to object to the item; but if the objection was one of principle, then the proper way to strike at the Vote was to move to repeal the Acts.

§ SIR ANDREW LUSK
took exception, mainly on sanitary grounds, to the item of £13,000 for emptying cesspools. He thought it most disgraceful that in soldiers' quarters the cesspool system should be tolerated. Sanitary science had condemned this system long ago.

§ LORD EUSTACE CECIL
explained, that in some districts a perfect system of drainage was not possible, and of course where cesspools existed they should be emptied as soon and as often as possible. The work was done under contract, and at, he believed, moderate cost.

§ SIR ANDREW LUSK
said, he objected to the item because these cesspools were bad for the health of the troops, and should be done away with as soon as possible. Drains ought to be more generally used. Was it to be wondered at there was sickness in some camps?

§ MR. M'LAGAN
said, he also believed that nothing could be so dangerous to the health of the troops as these cesspools. They ought to be replaced, where drains were not practicable, by earth closets

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, that many of the cesspools were on the dry-earth system, and the dry-earth formed part of the expenditure. There were a great many camps on a large scale where drains could not be laid down so easily as the hon. Baronet the Member for Finsbury supposed.

§ MR. A. H. BROWN
said, he wished to draw attention to the recommendations of the Report of the Committee on Public Departments made last year. They pointed out that the arrangements for the Contract Department at the Admiralty were under the financial head of that Department; while at the War Office they were under the Director General of Ordnance, and recommended that the system in operation at the Admiralty should be adopted at the War Office. They also stated that the two Departments frequently competed with each other in the purchase of stores: that the consequence was that prices were enhanced, and recommended that the chief purchasing officers of each Department should consult together periodically, so that competition 339 between them in the same markets might be avoided. He wished, further, to draw attention also to the remarks of the Committee with regard to taking stock of the stores of the Army. That was a matter which the Committee found to be in a very unsatisfactory and confused position; and it was thought advisable that there should be an annual stock-taking and valuation, it being important to know that the stocks of stores were properly kept up, which could only be ascertained by having those stocks taken fairly and accurately at specific periods. Had anything been done to give effect to the views expressed by the Committee?

§ GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR
said, that the Committee referred to had arrived at their Report after a careful investigation extending over two Sessions. He hoped that the recommendations it contained would be duly considered by the right hon. Gentleman at the head of the War Department. Many of them were of a most useful character, and would benefit the Service if carried out. The main object in view was to ensure co-operative action in the purchasing of stores between the different Departments of the State, and to confide to one branch the duty of laying in stocks of those stores which were in common use, as practised regarding cloth for the marines purchased by the Army, and beef and groceries purchased by the Admiralty for the Army. The next great point was for the Government, by this combined action, to know where to obtain supplies in time of need.

§ LORD ELCHO
said, that in the Vote a certain sum was taken for the manufacture of small arms. He desired some information on the point, for those who took an interest in the question knew that during last Autumn there was a good deal of discussion in the Press with respect to the Martini-Henry rifle, which was to be the future arm of the British Army and Reserve Forces. It was said that it was severe in recoil and inferior in its shooting qualities. He was glad the Government had not allowed themselves to be influenced by this criticism. He went into the Committee on the Martini-Henry rifle prejudiced against that arm; but he was converted by the evidence brought before the Committee. The evidence was the ablest that could be obtained, and upon it the Committee 340 came deliberately to the conclusion that the Martini-Henry rifle was mechanically correct. He was glad the Government had stood by that arm, and, after the exhaustive inquiry of two Committees, he thought it would be absurd to re-open the question. There might be some small defects in the weapon; but the second Committee, of which he was a member, had, after applying practical tests, come to the conclusion that there was no recoil to which any man, who knew how to shoot, could object, and that its amount was less than that in the case of the Snider. Beyond that, Mr. Ross, one of the best shots in England, had tested it, and had not found the slightest recoil beyond what might have been expected. But it had been stated that, while standing by the rifle, Government had altered the ammunition for it, by reducing the charge of powder and diminishing the weight of the bullet. As the mass of men could not see well for shooting beyond 600 yards, and this rifle would carry up to 1,200, there might with advantage be two descriptions of bullets—the heavier kind for marksmen shooting a long distance, and the lighter for use up to 600 yards. By this arrangement a soldier carrying the lighter ammunition would have nine more shots in his pouch than he could have at present, and this would be of considerable importance. If, however, anything had been done to lower the value of the weapon for long ranges the decision was a mistake, and ought to be re-considered. He had obtained a Return which showed that the Martini-Henry, with its heavy bullet, was infinitely superior in accuracy and range to any arm at present being made for any Army in Europe. He wished to know what number of Martini-Henry rifles had been made; what was the number making; what the number the Government contemplated making; and within what time the Government anticipated that the whole Army, and he presumed the Volunteers, would be supplied with that arm, and have a reserve store beside? He wished also to know what the Government thought was the amount for this country to have of surplus arms for the proper equipment of its forces, and how far the store would consist of Martini-Henry and how far of Snider rifles? Another question he should like to ask was as to what sort of bayonet was to be served out? He believed 341 that the bayonet was of little use in actual war, and that the proportion of men killed by steel in the Franco-German War did not exceed 2 per cent. He would suggest that instead of providing the soldier with one that could be used only as a weapon, it would be wise policy to spend 2s. additional in providing him with an instrument that could be used not only as a weapon, but also as a cutter of wood, and for other purposes.

§ COLONEL MURE
said, the question of the efficiency of the Martini-Henry rifle was a most important one, and a great deal had been said in the newspapers and elsewhere lately on the subject. There was no doubt it was a good shooting weapon, and that men like the noble Lord the Member for Haddingtonshire (Lord Elcho), Captain Boss, and other able-bodied men were capable of handling it well; but a large number of our soldiers were not able-bodied, and he therefore doubted very much if it was a weapon suitable to the whole of the service. He objected strongly to the course which had been taken by the War Office in reference to the vision tests applied to recruits. The country was spending vast sums of money in arming the troops with weapons of precision, which would shoot with perfect accuracy up to 1,000 yards; but the vision test had been reduced from time to time, until at the present moment the visual powers of recruits were only tested up to 400 yards—that was to say, the test of vision in firing at a target had been reduced from 15 to 10 feet. The reduction was one which had been rendered necessary by a failing system. It was said that the soldiers of the Line could shoot very well; but, as a matter of fact, the best practice was made by members of Volunteer corps.

§ COLONEL ALEXANDER
wished, in reference to the last remark of the hon. and gallant Gentleman, to say that recently the Martini-Henry rifle had been supplied to the recruits of three Line regiments in Dublin, and with the new regulation as to distance, they had made excellent practice with the weapon, which they preferred infinitely to the Snider.

§ LORD EUSTACE CECIL
, in answer to the various questions which had been put to him, said, it had always been desired that the different Departments 342 should not compete with each other in reference to contracts, but it had not at present been considered necessary to make any alteration as to the manner in which the Directorship of Contracts should be managed. With regard to the Martini-Henry rifle, notwithstanding the assertions to the contrary, he believed it would prove thoroughly worthy of the recommendation of the Committee which brought about its adoption, and that it would prove, if not the absolute best rifle, at any rate one of the best rifles in Europe. As to the reduction in the weight of the ammunition, they were told that it was impossible that recruits could fire these arms, and that it would be necessary to re-model the ammunition, and this naturally led to a certain amount of anxiety, in consequence of which experiments had been and were still going forward in reference to the question; but, at present, no change in the charge originally fixed had been made. Whether, if, in consequence of the experiments, a diminution should be recommended, it would be made, was another matter. The regular Infantry at home were armed with this rifle in November, 1874, and it had since been determined to supply them to the Navy, Marines, Engineers, Artillery, and Volunteers. The work had not as yet been completed; but it was hoped that the whole of the troops would shortly be supplied with the Martini-Henry rifle. The reports from the different regiments were highly favourable, evincing great satisfaction both with regard to accuracy and the amount of recoil. At the present moment there were 392,900 Sniders in use and 218,000 in store, or altogether 611,000, while there were 54,000 Martini-Henry rifles in use and 183,000 in store, or altogether 237,000; and if the whole of the manufacturing power at the disposal of the Government were employed to its full extent, rifles could be produced at the rate of 4,000 per week, as against 2,000, the average number now supplied, showing what could be done on an emergency. With regard to the question of bayonets, it had been determined after mature consideration to adopt in the Army the same type of weapon used by the Irish Constabulary, on the ground that it was cheaper in price and lighter in weight than the arm now in use. With respect to the stores 343 he believed they were, in every point of consideration, in as efficient and satisfactory a state as could be desired, and equal to any contingency that might arise; and although they could not take stock in the manner which the hon. Member for Wenlock (Mr. A. H. Brown) desired, it was yet taken in a most satisfactory manner, as appeared by the Reports of the inspecting officers of the various military districts.

§ LORD ELCHO
said, he was desirous to know what decision the Government had come to in reference to the proper number of reserved arms necessary to be maintained in the country? The Committee of which he had the honour to be a Member had made a certain decision as to the bayonet, and he should like to hear from the Government what was the evidence upon which a subsequent Committee reversed that decision, and whether they had any objection to produce it?

§ LORD EUSTACE CECIL
said, he was unable to answer the last question off-hand, but he believed that the great recommendation of the Irish bayonet was its lightness. With regard to the evidence upon the question, if the Reports were not of a confidential character he would produce them. As to reserve arms, 300,000 was the number fixed as the normal reserve, but the numbers in existence were—of Sniders in use and in store, 611,803; of Martini-Henrys 237,630. The total numbers were 849,433.

§ COLONEL MURE
said, that before he could agree to the Vote for Small Arms he must draw the attention of the Committee to the question to which he had already directed the right hon. Gentleman—namely, the test of vision.

THE CHAIRMAN
That is not the question before the Committee.

§ COLONEL MURE
said, the question of the supply of arms of long range before the Committee was intimately connected with the power of vision of our troops, and he should divide the Committee upon it. He had pointed out to the Committee, that every few years they were increasing the expenses of the country for small arms, and reducing the test of vision, and he felt he was right in saying he would take the sense of the Committee upon it.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, that inquiries had been made as to shortening 344 the distance for testing vision, but no information had yet been received on the subject. He was quite ready to cause further inquiries to be made as to that, and also as to the chest measurement, respecting which he had not been able to ascertain that measurements were made in the careless manner which had been imputed by the hon. and gallant Member the other evening.

§ COLONEL MURE
said, that if the right hon. Gentleman would inquire, he would find that 15 feet, which in 1863 was the test of vision recommended by Dr. Longmore, and accepted by the War Office, was, in 1870, when there was a press of recruiting, reduced to 10 feet.

§ LORD ELCHO
said, he had been in the enlistment room, at the barracks near the National Gallery, and had seen the shortened distance test sight, and, without having any pretensions to acute vision he could easily distinguish the test marks at a distance of 30 feet, whereas the distance for the sight test was now only 10 feet.

§ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK
said, he concurred with his hon. and gallant Friend on his left (Colonel Mure), in his statement that the test of vision was altered as he had described in 1870. It was an important point whether the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Gathorne Hardy), instead of being ignorant on the subject, ought not to have satisfied himself that the test distance had been altered on good grounds. He thought the Martini-Henry rifle was as efficient a weapon as was carried by any Army in Europe, though as to the breechblock, he thought that the German Mauser was the best at that moment. With respect to the point raised by his noble Friend opposite (Lord Elcho), in reference to the bayonet he thought it a most important one. When the Army had long rifles they had long bayonets, and now they had shorter rifles the bayonet was also shortened; and that was a great disadvantage to the Infantry soldier when engaged with Cavalry. It was rumoured that a change in the bayonet was contemplated, and that the Army would be armed with a bayonet of the pattern in use in the Irish Constabulary; but however that might be, the present bayonet placed our Infantry in the disadvantageous position 345 of carrying the shortest pike in Europe, for it was 7 inches shorter than any pike carried by foreign Armies. He was informed that that defect could he remedied by re-heating and re-drawing it, so as to lengthen it 6 inches, without altering its temper.

§ GENERAL SHUTE
begged to correct the hon. and gallant Gentleman. Fire would stop Cavalry; but bayonets never would, whether they were long or short.

§ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK
urged that a long arm was of service in keeping a mounted enemy at a distance, whilst the cartridge was introduced, and for that reason, he was in favour of it.

§ LORD EUSTACE CECIL
said, with reference to the adoption of the bayonet of the Irish Constabulary, the Reports referred to were of a confidential character, and he could not therefore produce them.

§ COLONEL ALEXANDER
pointed out the necessity of having Richmond and Island Bridge Barracks, Dublin, supplied with Vartry water instead of canal water, as at present. He wished also to draw attention to the disgraceful condition of the buts in the Beggar's Bush Barracks, Dublin, where the 3rd battalion Grenadier Guards, of which he had the command, lay last winter. The subject of fever in those barracks had been referred to in a letter which appeared in The Times on Friday last. Captain Langham and another gallant officer died of typhoid fever within a month. A minute inspection of the barracks was ordered and was made by the principal medical officer for the whole of Ireland, assisted by the principal medical officer in Dublin, but they could not trace the origin of the disease. In February last, the cook employed at the officers' mess died, and soon afterwards a fit investigation took place. The milk and the water supplied to the barracks were tested and found pure. But it was discovered that the sewer traps throughout the barracks were of the most primitive kind, and that poisonous gas diffused itself throughout the officers' quarters. Since he left Ireland he saw by the letter in The Times that a correspondence 346 as to the condition of the barracks had previously passed between the officers of the 2nd battalion Scots Fusilier Guards and the Engineers' department in Dublin. Of that correspondence, he had not before heard; but it was so important, that he intended to move for its production. He could not but think in all such cases the Engineer's department should be instructed to have the necessary work done without delay or regard to the fact whether the expense came out of this or that year's Estimates.

§ LORD CLAUD J. HAMILTON
said, he wished to confirm what had fallen from his hon. and gallant Friend with respect to the unhealthy character of Beggar's Bush, Richmond, and Island Bridge Barracks at Dublin. Their condition was a public scandal, and he trusted that the Secretary of State for War would give his earliest attention to the matter. Unless something were clone to improve the sanitary condition of those barracks, it was utterly useless to talk of recruiting the Army; for the buildings into which they put the men were little better than pest-houses.

§ SIR ANDREW LUSK
, though he knew nothing about arms of precision, hoped he knew something of the affairs of common life, and he maintained that they ought to use every means which sanitary science placed within their reach to preserve their soldiers in health. He hoped the right hon. Gentleman would some day remove the ugly and hideous barracks at Knightsbridge, and so beautify Hyde Park.

§ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK
said, he was glad to find that out of the £73,000 to be expended for new works, in addition to that for the alteration of barracks, £25,000 of it was to be applied to the amelioration of married soldiers' quarters in various parts of Ireland, for which the right hon. Gentleman deserved the hearty thanks of the Army and the public. He had seen 10 married families in two rooms, consisting of between 35 and 40 individuals in each room, with no separation between them. With regard to the barrack accommodation at Dublin, the condition of the Royal Hospital at Kilmainham was as bad as that of the other barracks in the city, and required immediate attention.

§ LORD ELCHO
said, that Votes were being agreed to very rapidly; but before 347 this Vote was passed, he would remind the Committee that it included Votes for fortifications at Home and Abroad. In past years stiff battles were fought over them, and they were known as the "Battles of the Shields." They had, in fact, to strengthen the shields concurrently with improvements in artillery. From 35-ton guns we had got to 80-ton guns, and he wished to know if the increased power of the guns were taken into consideration in the shields that were being erected at Gibraltar, Malta, and Bermuda? Of the 800 guns ready for use, how many would be required for the Army and fortifications at home, and when would the Home forts be completely armed? How many big guns had been sent to Gibraltar, Malta, and Bermuda? Whether any of them had been mounted, and by what time all the armaments abroad would be completed with artillery suited to them?

§ COLONEL MAKINS
directed attention to the inconvenient state of some of the chapels in which Divine service was performed for the benefit of our soldiers, and asked whether anything was proposed to be clone with regard to improving the accommodation?

§ COLONEL MURE
, in corroborating what the hon. and gallant Member opposite (Colonel Alexander) had said about the Beggar's Bush Barracks, said, that when the Scots Fusiliers took up their quarters there the barracks were in a very bad state indeed, and the result of a correspondence that took place was one of the most lamentable pieces of red tapeism that ever came under his notice. It was found on inspection that it would only cost £15 to place the barracks in a proper sanitary condition; but because the Department did not wish to alter the Estimates this trifling sum was refused, and certain temporary remedies were suggested. The consequence was some mortality in the Scots Fusilier Guards, the death of two officers of the Grenadier Guards, and he did not know of how many of the soldiers' children. He did not know anything more degrading to the Army and the Army authorities than that such mortality should have ensued for the sake of not changing the Estimates. He trusted that the right hon. Gentleman, whatever he would do in regard to recruiting, would at least direct his attention to the lives of our soldiers.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, he was quite sensible of the distressing nature of the circumstances which had occurred at Beggar's Bush Barracks, but he was not prepared, from the information before him, to come to the conclusion that the illness of the officers stationed there had been produced by the state of the barracks. He should, indeed, be sorry to find that was the case; but he had reason to believe that there were other causes for that illness. With respect to the private soldiers quartered there, he understood they were in as good health as the men quartered in other parts of the country. In consequence of the Question which an hon. Member had given Notice that he would put to him to-morrow as to these barracks, he had directed every inquiry to be made into the matter, and he would, therefore, give the House tomorrow full particulars on the subject. He might, however, now state that the subject had engaged attention from the first moment it was brought to his notice, and he did not believe there had been any putting off of what was necessary to be done on account of any disinclination to alter the Estimates to the amount of £15. He had given instructions to the Army Sanitary Commission to go over to Dublin to examine the barracks. A question had been asked by the hon. Baronet the Member for Finsbury about the Hyde Park Barracks. There was nothing respecting them in the present Estimates; and among the many duties cast upon the Secretary of State for War, he hoped the beautifying of London would not be included. It was desirable that he should be left to regard those buildings merely as barracks.

§ LORD EUSTACE CECIL
said, that orders had been sent to Malta, Gibraltar, and Bermuda, with regard to the strengthening the shields; but on account of peculiar local circumstances, it was impossible to tell when the works would be entirely finished. Up to the 3lst of March, 1875, the number of guns distributed, or ready to be distributed, over the United Kingdom, Malta, Gibraltar, and Bermuda was 806. Of these, 667 were already in the districts for which they were destined, mounted or about to be mounted; and the remainder were in the Arsenal, and would be gradually despatched to their respective 349 destinations. As to the weight of the guns, there were at Malta five of 28-tons, eight of 25-tons, nine of 18-tons, and 21 of 12-tons—total, 43; at Gibraltar 18 of 18-tons, and 22 of 12-tons—total, 40; and at Bermuda five of 25-tons, 16 of 18-tons, and 12 of 12-tons—total, 33.

§ CAPTAIN NOLAN
said, there had been some mistake as to who was responsible for the Order by which the number of Staff appointments to be filled by students of the Staff College was reduced from one-half to one-sixth of the whole number. Though dated 1873, the Queen's Regulations were not published until March, 1874, and it was desirable to know what Government was responsible for it.

§ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK
said, he would also like the Secretary for War to give some explanation on this important point. The Order was first issued as a paragraph in the Queen's Regulations bearing date at the end of 1873, but actually issued to the Army in March 1874. The latter date would place it under the jurisdiction of the present Secretary for War.

§ COLONEL ALEXANDER
thought that as it was desirable to induce men of good education to become schoolmasters in the Army the present rate of pay—namely, 3s. 9d. a-day, increasing 6d. every third year—was rather small. Would the right hon. Gentleman have any objection to a small increase?

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, he should, for he had found no difficulty in getting plenty of teachers at the present salary.

§ SIR PATRICK O'BRIEN
said, it was of great importance to have in India officers who had passed through the Staff College, and he would like to know whether it was intended that the circumstance of an officer having passed through the Staff College should be taken into account in filling up Staff appointments in India?

§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN
said, he thought that the Regulations did not express the intentions of the right hon. Gentleman, nor the military authorities, which he took to be that on the one hand Staff appointments should be filled, as a rule, by Staff College 350 officers; whilst, on the other hand, it should be clearly understood that they had no absolute right to those appointments. The proper system was to require merely that officers who were candidates for Staff appointments should undergo an examination, leaving them at liberty to get their education where they liked. There would be much inconvenience in restricting the appointments exclusively to officers who had gone through the Staff College.

§ GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR
also was decidedly in favour of having suitable examinations, and not the favour or patronage of individuals, to guide the authorities selecting officers for Army offices. The prospect of a narrow restriction in the disposal of Staff appointments had, he said, created much alarm in the Army. It was not only the subordinate offices but the highest appointments that should be open to the competition of all qualified officers.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, he was unable to state the exact date of the publication of the Regulations referred to, which had been drawn up prior to his coming into office. As he understood that Order, it was made with the object of showing that there was no absolute right on the part of those who had passed through the Staff College to Staff appointments. He was quite ready to look into the question; but it seemed to him that they could have no absolute claim. The matter was left in the hands of the general officers, who had a general power of selecting their Staff for themselves; although no doubt great consideration would be given to those gentlemen who had passed the Staff examinations and who had practically a monopoly of the lower Staff appointments. With regard to the question about India, he was not able to say what were the rules laid down in India, because he exercised no control over the arrangements made in that country.

§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN
hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would see his way to amend the paragraphs in the Queen's Regulations as far as they related to the higher Staff appointments, so as to place these on the same footing as the lower.

§ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK
remarked that there still appeared to be some misapprehension on the subject of these 351 appointments. He thought it would be a great advantage to the Service and give great hopes of the education at the Staff College if some assurance were afforded that for the future the higher grades of the Staff appointments would be equally open to officers who had been specially educated at the College, and to those selected on account of claims arising from service.

§ GENERAL SHUTE
believed that the real grievance against the late Government's military policy was that there was not a sufficient distribution of the Staff appointments.

§ MR. WHITWELL
wished to have some information as to the condition of the Military College at Sandhurst.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
replied that there was an increase in the number of the pupils; that the College was working well at present; and that some improvements were in progress.

§ MR. F. STANLEY
stated that the expenses of carrying out the provisions of the Contagious Diseases Act were chiefly for the salaries of medical examiners and the staff of nurses, and for travelling expenses. The sum asked for the reparation of Crimean graveyards—namely, £5,000, was so large in consequence of the graveyards having been long neglected and allowed to fall into decay. The amount now asked for would enable the cemeteries to be put into a proper condition, and it was contemplated to ask Parliament to sanction a small amount for payment to a guardian permanently residing on the spot, who would prevent any further dilapidations of the graveyards from taking place.

§ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK
expressed a hope that the Government would take steps to bring the Intelligence Department in India not only into communication with the Intelligence Department at home, but into close relations with it. It was efficiently managed; but he thought that the two should be in communication, neither being subordinated to each other.

§ GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR
thought the Quartermaster General's and the Adjutant General's Departments should be amalgamated, and the Intelligence Department raised to a higher position befitting its importance. No one could have given attention to the duties as formerly assigned to the officers of the Quartermaster General, without being struck with the fact that the Intelligence department as recently formed was a mere duplicated set of Staff, and that looking at the large array of generals and Staff officers of various denominations now existing, it must be conceded that they had an ample Staff for an infinitely larger Army than they at present maintained.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, he was not able to give details of what the Intelligence Department were doing; but he believed they were in communication with every part of the Empire, obtaining information which might hereafter prove of value. He quite saw the importance of co-operation between the Intelligence Departments here and in India.

§ SIR ANDREW LUSK
asked if it was not better to employ clerks than writers who considered themselves not exactly as Government servants, and were more difficult, consequently, to manage?

MR. GATHORNE HARDY
said, they were mostly employed temporarily, and it was not desirable, by engaging clerks, to increase the staff and thus swell the future pension list.

§ MR. A. H. BROWN
wished to know when there would be any reduction in that large amount for out-pensions which they were told two years ago would be shortly reduced?

§ MR. STEPHEN CAVE
explained that a Royal Warrant lately issued had 353 increased the Vote by a grant of pensions to old soldiers who had served in the Army during the Peninsular and "Waterloo campaigns, and in operations of that period elsewhere. Many of them were not strictly entitled to pensions, because they had commuted them long ago; but they were scattered through the country in great poverty, some being in receipt of parochial relief, and it was scarcely creditable that this should be the condition of the old soldiers of a great country. Besides, as the hon. Gentleman was no doubt aware, the spectacle they presented, without pensions, operated as a great obstacle to recruiting. The number of these men proved to be considerably larger than had been anticipated. No pension had been granted without the strictest inquiry. The highest which had been granted was 1s. 6d. a-day, and this had been given only in the case of men who were over 80 years of age, or had been wounded. It was a Vote which might still grow; but, owing to the great age of the pensioners, it could only be for a short time, after which it would rapidly diminish.