SECOND READING. (Hansard, 4 August 1874)

§ MR. BUTT
said, that Ireland returned 64 county Members, two University Members, and at present, being shorn of two borough Members, 37 Members for towns. There were only 50,000 persons in the whole of Ireland who enjoyed the town franchise, and of these 28,000 were electors for the city of Dublin and the borough of Belfast. Only 22,000 people outside of Dublin enjoyed this franchise, and it was a total mistake to suppose the reason was there were no urban constituencies. The city of Armagh had a largo population and more electors than many boroughs in England which returned Members, and he should be sorry to see it disfranchised. What he affirmed was, that before 1867, when the Reform Bill for England was passed, there was comparatively a small number of borough electors in England, and the Reform Bill of 1867 trebled the number of borough electors in England, but the Reform Bill passed for Ireland scarcely increased them at all. There were four principles carried out in England which were not applied to Ireland. In England the franchise was lowered to make it a household one; in Ireland the franchise was left at £4. In England boundaries were extended, but not in Ireland. Occupiers were rated as far as possible in England, but not in Ireland. There was partial disfranchisement in England, or rather in Scotland, and seats were transferred from small to large constituencies; and there was ample room for applying that principle to Ireland. If these four principles were carried out in Ireland many grievances and anomalies would be corrected. In England there were 1,336,000 borough electors, and in Scotland 181,000; and in England and Scotland one in eight of the borough population was enfranchised, while in Ireland the proportion was one in 16. The application to Ireland of the rules which prevailed in England would double the electoral body. The Act of 1868 had scarcely increased the constituencies of Ireland. It was a mistake to suppose that the borough franchise had been lower in Ireland than ever it was in England. The qualification was 1263 really raised by the substitution of an £8 rating for a £10 rental qualification. If Government would take the matter in hand, and apply to Ireland the principles adopted in England, they would do much to conciliate the people of Ireland. As a matter of form, he would move the second reading of the Bill, so that he might not have made a speech on false pretences; but, of course, he did not mean to press the Motion.

§ MR. VANCE
regretted that the matter had not been brought forward earlier in the Session and before so many Irish Members had left town. The hon. Member for Carlow (Mr. Bruen) had given Notice of his intention to move the rejection of the Bill, and doubtless would have been prepared to reply to the hon. and learned Member, who, however, had travelled very much beyond his Bill, that was simply a measure to reduce the franchise in Ireland from one of £4 to a general household suffrage. He had to thank the hon. Member for his intention not to disfranchise his borough in his new Reform Bill; but there was little doubt if he carried the Bill he now proposed, instead of a majority which he had at present, he would absorb the whole representation of Ireland under the banner of Home Rule. Before the last Reform Bill the franchise in Ireland was at £8; it was now reduced to £4, and the reason for fixing £4 was that below that rental the landlord always paid the rates. In the present state of Ireland it would be a dangerous experiment to reduce the franchise below £4. Below that line they would introduce a class of people who were not worthy of the franchise, and who were not intelligent enough to exercise it.

MR. MACARTNEY
said, he hoped the Motion would not be pressed to a division, because that would place in a false position many on the Ministerial side of the House who thought the franchise ought to be lowered, though not to the extent contemplated by the hon. and learned Member for Limerick. There were persons occupying houses at rentals of £2 who might be invested with the franchise; but it would not do to admit the class paying 5s. or 10s. a-year

§ MR. MITCHELL HENRY
could not see how it was possible for them to adopt any other principle than that there should be a fair and real representation of Irish feeling in that House. Parliament could not eventually resist the demand made by the Irish people, either that they should be allowed to manage their own affairs or be placed on a perfect equality with England and treated as an integral part of the United Kingdom.