RESOLUTION. (Hansard, 4 August 1874)

§ MR. BUTT,
in rising to move— That, having regard to the importance of the changes in the constitution of the Dublin University, and the period at which the draft of the proposed Queen's Letter has been laid upon the Table of this House, it is desirable that before they are finally sanctioned, a fuller opportunity should be afforded for their consideration than is possible during the present Session. said, that the managing body of Trinity College had prepared the draft of a Letter to be submitted to Her Majesty for her approval, making certain changes in the constitution and system of the College. The proposed statute was, indeed, very fully discussed in the Senate of Dublin University, but it was not laid on the Table of that House until the 9th of July; and it was to be presumed that the object of laying it on the Table at all was to enable it to be properly discussed in that House. From the Answer given by the Government to a Question which he had put to them on that subject on the 23rd of April he had understood, as the public out-of-doors also understood, that that House as well as the Senate of the University would have a full opportunity of discussing that matter. The effect of the Bill introduced in a previous Session by the hon. Member for Hackney (Mr. Fawcett) for abolishing religious tests in the Dublin University had changed the whole relation of that University to the Crown and Parliament, and it would be unwise in the Government now to force on the issuing of that Letter without giving the House an opportunity of considering it. What they had to consider was whether the Queen's Letter would introduce such changes into the Dublin University as would make it a national institution. He contended that it would not, and that that result was not likely soon to be realized. No change would really make Dublin University a national University which did not provide in some way for Roman Catholics receiving education there such as they were willing to accept. There was no attempt whatever in the Queen's Letter to achieve that desirable object, and that was a sufficient 1326 reason to condemn it. He contended that this Letter ought to be delayed until full time was given for its consideration, and until those who were interested in it had had the opportunity of submitting their views in regard to its proposals. The question was one of the very greatest importance to Ireland, and he hoped the House what endorse what he had submitted.

THE O'DONOGHUE
seconded the Motion. He admitted that the subject dealt with by the Queen's Letter was a difficult one; but there was nothing insuperable connected with it, nor would it be impossible to grapple with it successfully if proper time were taken for consideration.

§ SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH
said, that no doubt the draft charter was only laid upon the Table in July; but there had been many opportunities afforded for the matter to have been brought under the consideration of the House if hon. Members were anxious to do so. Even on Saturday last at 2 o'clock, the hon. and learned Member had a fair opportunity of discussing the matter, but neither he nor the hon. Member for Tralee (the O'Donoghue) had availed himself of that opportunity. The hon. and learned Member for Limerick and the hon. Gentleman who seconded his Motion rather exaggerated the importance and purport of the document which would, if acted upon, simply and solely carry out the legislation of the last Session of the last Parliament. There was nothing in the proposed Queen's Letter which would in any way debar any hon. Member who looked at the question from a denominational point of view from bringing it forward next Session.

§ SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH
resumed: The hon. and learned Member 1327 for Limerick had himself admitted that the University of Dublin occupied a peculiar position—that under the terms of its original charter power was given to change its constitution in a much easier way than that of Oxford or Cambridge could be altered. The form of charter before the House had been adopted by the Senate of the University after full consideration of many plans which were submitted to them. Let them suppose this letter to be issued, what would be the result? Merely this—that a particular change would be made for the present. There was no necessary finality about it. If it were found that the new system did not work satisfactorily it could be altered at any future period. Considering therefore, that with regard to the abolition of tests, the Queen's Letter merely carried out recent legislation, and with regard to the constitution of the new Governing Body of the University, it might be altered next year if it was found not to work well, he thought the opportunities for its consideration were all that those most interested in the subject could desire.

§ MR. ERRINGTON
supported the Motion in no spirit of hostility to an institution of which he was proud. He declined, however, to sacrifice the educational interests of Ireland to what he regarded as the selfish interests of a small and select Governing Body.

§ MR. ERRINGTON
resumed: He would suggest that only that part of the Queen's Letter which would abolish tests should be acted upon, and that the residue of the new scheme should be reserved for future consideration.

THE O'CONOR DON
said, he could not allow the debate to close without joining in the protest which had been made against the intended ratification of the proposed draft charter. He also protested against the argument of the Chief Secretary for Ireland, that the passing of the Appropriation Bill, introduced at the end of the Session, afforded a reasonable opportunity for the discussion of such an important question as this. That it was impossible to discuss it that evening was evident from the proceedings of the last quarter of an hour during which two attempts had been made to stifle discus 1328 sion, attempts which had been aided by Members of the Government who had retired from the House immediately before the last Count and had returned when it was unsuccessful. He was glad, however, to learn from the Chief Secretary that this draft charter had no character of finality about it—that, in fact, it settled nothing, and that it could not be urged as an argument against proposing further changes next year or the year after. Considering the character thus given to it by the Chief Secretary he hardly knew what was its object or why it should be pressed forward with such determined haste, but he wished to assure the House that it did nothing for the Catholics of Ireland; that it did not improve their condition in any appreciable way; and that no greater delusion could be entertained than the supposition that its adoption would in any way whatsoever, add to the national character of the University of Dublin.

§ MR. FAWCETT
remarked that the Queen's Letter would not prevent this subject being brought fully under the consideration of Parliament next Session. He should not approve of this scheme, which was imperfect, as a final measure of re-organization, but he regarded it as merely a basis for further reform. ["Divide!"] As it appeared that he was not to be heard he would move the adjournment of the debate.