SUPPLY—considered in Committee. (Hansard, 2 May 1873)

§ MR. BOWRING
moved the omission of the item £197 13s. for Queen's Plates. He believed the vast majority of the population of Scotland objected to the continuance of this Vote. In 1869 it was carried by a majority of 191 to 73; but the following year a great change took place in the views of Scotch Mem- 1454 bers on the subject, and owing to their almost unanimous opposition, the vote was withdrawn. It was not proposed at all in 1871, but was restored to the Estimates in 1872, in consequence of a round-robin to the Government, said to have been drawn up by the hon. Member for Berwickshire (Mr. Robertson). On that occasion the vote was carried by only 116 to 78, and that mainly because the Government were supported by hon. Members from Ireland who were afraid lest they should lose the similar vote for that country. Queen's Plates in England were paid for out of the Civil List, but in Scotland and Ireland they were not Queen's Plates at all, but Parliamentary grants which ought to be struck off the Vote if for no other reason than this, that instead of tending to improve the breed of horses, they acted precisely in a contrary manner; for, as a rule, nothing but second-rate animals contended for them. In addition to this he objected to a Parliamentary recognition of horse racing and the betting and gambling which always accompanied it. He should certainly take the sense of the Committee against the item.

§ MR. ALDERMAN LUSK
said, he had no desire to find fault with racing, or say that it was immoral; but he thought the money was thrown away in a paltry and miserable manner, and that they should either give a proper prize to be competed for, or none at all. In four races in England last year there was not a single horse found to run for the Queen's Plates; and at the same time, in the case of the Scotch Queen's Plates, only two or three horses ran for each; and not a good horse in the lot.

MR. J. C. HAMILTON
hoped the Vote would not be rejected, because England and Ireland had their Queen's Plates voted without objection.

§ MR. MACFIE
said, the withdrawal of such grants from Scotland had caused much remark in the part of the country with which he was connected. As a Scotch Member he objected to his country being singled out for withdrawal.

§ MR. DILLWYN,
while thinking the question ought not to be viewed as a national one, said, he did not think the 1455 money was required, and should therefore support the hon. Member for Exeter's proposal.

§ SIR PATRICK O'BRIEN,
who spoke amidst considerable interruption, said, that when hon. Members below the gangway talked of economy, it reminded him of an excellent saying he had read in The Morning Post about 20 years ago, that "time was a public common, on which every man turned out his own donkey to graze." He maintained that the question should be regarded in relation to the whole United Kingdom, and not to any single portion of it merely. He should therefore vote in favour of granting the Queen's Plates to Scotland, the people of which appeared to desire their continuance, although their representatives on a former occasion had advocated their withdrawal.

§ SIR ROBERT ANSTRUTHER
said, he did not object to the hon. Gentleman grazing his own donkey, but he did object to him grazing it upon Scotch grass. He believed that those Plates, so far from encouraging an improved breed of horses, encouraged a breed of wretched animals that were a disgrace to the country.

§ MR. R. N. FOWLER
objected to the Vote, on the ground that great evil resulted from the extent to which racing and betting were carried in this country, which had resulted in the ruin of many men in high position.

§ MR. PEASE
also objected to the Vote, because it was absurd to suppose that the vote of this small sum could encourage the breed of horses in this country.

§ MR. RYLANDS
asked for some explanation of the functions of the Bible Board.

§ THE LORD ADVOCATE
said, the question was a very reasonable one, but the name "Bible Board" was a misnomer. The Board consisted of several gentlemen who had got by patent the exclusive right and privilege of printing the Bible and Prayer Books in Scotland. Formerly the printing of Bibles was a monopoly in Scotland as in England, the monopoly being given to the Queen's printers by Royal patent. With a view to put an end to the monopoly in Scotland some 30 years ago, the system was hit upon of giving a patent to certain Commissioners, on the condition that they should grant licences to all publishers upon their complying with certain conditions which the Royal Warrant specified in order to secure the purity of the text. The Bibles were now printed by very respectable publishers, and he signed from 40 to 60 licences every year. All the expenses connected with the Commissioners' work was a salary of £600 to a secretary, and the salary of the law agent who had to prepare the licences.

§ MR. TREVELYAN
moved that the Vote be reduced by the sum of £1,562 for Queen's Plates for Ireland.

§ SIR PATRICK O'BRIEN
defended the Vote, and suggested that the whole amount should be handed over to the Turf Club to distribute as they might think fit.

§ MR. WHALLEY
said, that this money might be most usefully applied in the form of prizes for horses at agricultural shows.

§ SIR HENRY STORKS
was of opinion that these Plates did a great deal of good in Ireland by encouraging the breed of horses on the part of gentlemen who encouraged racing. The Committee 1457 would appreciate the interest which the Government had in the horses produced in Ireland when he stated that every regiment of cavalry in the service, except one, was mounted in Ireland; and he attributed the excellent horses they got from that country in a great degree to the stallions which ran for these Plates.

§ SIR DAVID WEDDERBURN
supported the Motion of the hon. Member for the Border Burghs (Mr. Trevelyan).

§ MR. MUNTZ
thought the money might be better applied in some such matter as suggested by the hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr. Whalley), but as the Scotch Vote had been agreed to, he must reluctantly vote for the Irish Queen's Plates.

THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON
expressed his belief that the breed of horses had been and was being greatly improved by the practice of horse racing; he should be sorry, therefore, to see Queen's Plates abolished, as they were a national recognition of the sport. He thought, however, that they might perhaps be appropriated in a more satisfactory manner among the four Provinces than they were at present.