HC Deb 27 March 1873 vol 215 cc225-7
LORD HENRY LENNOX

said, he wished to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty a Question with respect to the Navy Estimates. He had privately informed the right hon. Gentleman that, in consequence of an impression that these Estimates would not be brought on until this day week, he had made for to-night an engagement of a public character which the right hon. Gentleman himself admitted it was almost impossible for him to forego. He quite expected from what the right hon. Gentleman said the other night that he would not enter upon any important Votes that evening. Would the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that none of the important Votes would be brought before the House that night?

MR. GOSCHEN

said, that the noble Lord was totally in error. The point was this: The noble Lord had got a Notice on the Paper with regard to the Devastation, and there were two other Gentlemen who had Motions on going into Committee of Supply. They were kind enough not to bring those Motions forward on condition that they should have an equally good opportunity of doing so, and, therefore, it was said that on this day week the Navy Estimates should be placed first, when the Motions might come on, but he had no intention not to take any important Votes before Thursday next. The question, therefore, arose whether important Votes were to be postponed because the noble Lord had got an engagement for that evening? He was willing to put off Vote 3, but he could not engage to defer the others.

MR. GLADSTONE

moved that the Orders of the Day be postponed until after the first seven Notices of Motion.

LORD HENRY LENNOX

inquired after what hour the right hon. Gentleman would not go on with the Votes that night.

MR. GOSCHEN

Not after 11 o'clock.

SIR LAWRENCE PALK

said, it certainly appeared to him the other night that the First Lord of the Admiralty did give the House to understand that the Navy Estimates would not be taken that night, but on next Thursday. ["Order."] The right hon. Gentleman himself must be aware that his (Sir Lawrence Palk's) noble Friend had given up his right to speak in order to suit the convenience of the right hon. Gentleman, and though it might not be right that the convenience of the House should be sacrificed to that of an hon. Member, still both sides of the House were deeply concerned in this—that faith should be kept.

MR. GOSCHEN

said, the hon. Baronet had misunderstood him, and he would see that the object of the understanding that the Navy Estimates should be taken on Thursday next was that hon. Members who had postponed their Motions should have an opportunity of bringing them forward on that night.

MR. G. BENTINCK

said, there appeared to be a series of misunderstandings. He would like, at all events, to be quite clear on one point. He distinctly understood the other night the right hon. Gentleman to say that when he next brought on the Navy Estimates the Committee should be at liberty to enter on the general discussion, in return for having relinquished it at the time to suit the convenience of the Government. He hoped there was no misunderstanding on that point.

MR. GLADSTONE

said, that the Government had no power whatever to modify the rules under which discussions in Committee were conducted. The general discussion was certainly waived the other night for the convenience of the Government, and it was understood to be the desire of hon. Members that there should be given an opportunity of resuming the discussion with regard to the general scale on which the Estimates were proposed. The Government were under the belief that the discussion could be raised on the Votes in question, and he trusted that would satisfy the hon. Gentleman.

SIR JOHN HAY

said, that what had fallen from the Prime Minister fully bore out the statements of his noble Friend (Lord Henry Lennox) as to what occurred the other night. They understood that the necessities of the public service required that the Vote for men should be taken before the end of the month, and they at once acceded to this proposal. But this showed that the Government did not then anticipate that they would have another day at their disposal before the end of March for further discussion of the Navy Estimates. It was in consequence of that, that Vote 1 was agreed to, on the understanding that the general discussion on the Navy Estimates should be continued on Vote 2, a course justified by former precedents. As the month of April had not yet arrived, he trusted the other Votes would not be taken before then.

MR. GOSCHEN

said, that whether Supply could be brought on to-night would depend upon the length of the discussion which would previously take place.

Motion agreed to.