HC Deb 27 February 1873 vol 214 cc1038-9

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether, before introducing the University Education (Ireland) Bill, He obtained information as to the number and character of "Institutions" in Ireland (other than the Magee College) which may, by the operation of the provisions of the Bill, become affiliated Colleges of the University of Dublin; and, if so, whether He will lay such information on the Table of the House?


In answer to the Question of the right hon. and learned Gentleman, I have to say that our knowledge of such institutions in Ireland as may be described as affiliated Colleges is a general and not a formal or official knowledge, so that we have nothing to lay upon the Table of the House upon the subject. It was not necessary, and it was not possible for us, previously to the introduction of the measure relating to university education in Ireland, to make such inquiries as those to which the right hon. and learned Gentleman refers. That which we did think necessary was to describe in clear and emphatic terms the principles upon which the constitution of the Council of the College was to be founded; and I stated, on the part of my Colleagues and with their assent, that in our view those whom I called the ordinary members of the Council ought to constitute the main strength and force of the Council, and that any number of so-called collegiate members who may be introduced into the Council ought to be simply auxiliary and secondary elements. To that general principle the provisions of the measure ought in their details to be made to conform when, with the progress of information, we can see what precise shape these provisions ought to assume as regards the constitution of the Council.


referring to the answer of the First Lord of the Treasury on Monday 24th February, asked, Whether, by the second Clause of the University Education (Ireland) Bill, it is intended that all the Colleges to be affiliated to the University, under the authority given to the ordinary members of the Council (under Clause 2), or by the ordinary collegiate members (under Clause 31, page 15), shall be selected and named by the Council prior to the 1st of January 1875; or whether such nomination and selection may be made at any period subsequent to the said date?


I do not understand that any power would be given by the Bill to the ordinary members of the Council to affiliate Colleges by their own act, and with regard to the power which the ordinary and collegiate members jointly would possess, I am not aware of any distinction between the two periods referred to except that which I pointed out the other evening. I wish to take advantage of this opportunity to state that when referring to the members of the Magee College I gave the number as I found them in the calendar of the College. It is possible, however, that the figures included matriculated and non-matriculated members, and although I do not know what non-matriculated members may be, I do not think they should be considered as members of a University.


said, he did not understand the right hon. Gentleman's answer. He would put the Question in another form—Whether the only affiliations would be those named in the second schedule of the Bill, or whether the Council would be able to affiliate Colleges in time to come; he was to understand that the work of October, 1874, would not be an affiliation; would there be any affiliation subsequently?


Yes; I said so the other day.


asked, Whether the Standing Committee of the General Assembly of the Irish Presbyterian Church on the subject of Trinity College had communicated their views on the University Education (Ireland) Bill; and, whether the Government would lay such communication on the Table?


No, Sir. I answered a similar question to this the other day, so far as that day was concerned; and I have had no communication with the body referred to since that day.