§ SIR THOMAS BATESONI wish, Sir, to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether he is aware that the Irish Government annually takes stringent measures to prevent the burning of the effigy of "the traitor Lundy" at Derry, and, in order thereto, periodically moves to that city, at the expense of the nation, large forces of military and constabulary; and that since the recent decision on the county Galway Election Petition, the effigy of Mr. Justice Keogh has been publicly burned at various places in the cities and counties of Dublin, Cork, Wexford, Waterford, Drogheda, and in particular at Derry, without any active attempt by the Government, or police force under their orders, to obstruct the same; whether he is prepared to extend to the effigy of Judge Keogh the same protection which has been afforded to the Lundy effigy; and, whether, at this late period, he will take proper steps to protect this learned Judge from further insult and outrage, 787 in order to maintain the dignity and independence of the judicial bench?
MR. GLADSTONESir, I will proceed to answer the very effective speech of my hon. Friend, which, I may remark, being framed in the form of a Question, he has had the opportunity of delivering twice in this House. My hon. Friend is rather imperfect in his information upon the case. He supposes that some special measures have been taken to prevent the burning of the effigy of Lundy; but no special measures have been taken. Whatever has been done in the matter of the effigy of Lundy has been done upon sworn information sent to the Government beforehand, and setting forth the probability of acts dangerous to the public peace; and the object of the Government has not been to afford any protection or do any honour to the memory of Lundy, but simply to preserve the public peace, which I presume my hon. Friend thinks an object deserving the attention of the Government, though I am not quite sure of that, having regard to the terms of his Question. ["Oh!"] However that may be, I am informed there has been no attempt to burn the effigy of Mr. Justice Keogh, in the place where the effigy of Lundy is burnt.
§ SIR THOMAS BATESONThe effigy of Mr. Justice Keogh was publicly burnt in the city of Derry.
MR. GLADSTONEI am told not. I do not know my hon. Friend's source of information; but if he will supply the Government with any details they shall be investigated. No information has been sent to the Government of any apprehended dangers to the public peace arising out of the burning of the effigy of Mr. Justice Keogh, nor has there been any warning to the Government of such disturbances; but the Government have themselves, as my hon. Friend ought to know, used every exertion for the purpose of preventing these acts, have instituted proceedings against various persons concerned in them, have in many cases procured their punishment, and have at this moment, several prosecutions pending against other persons for acts of this nature. The Government have taken these steps, acting upon the best information they could obtain, though never having the advantage which they enjoy with regard to anniversary observances, such as those of Derry— 788 that of obtaining before hand the sworn testimony of inhabitants as to an apprehended breach of the peace. That is the answer I have to give to my hon. Friend. But the Government have all along used efforts to preserve the peace, and to prevent outrage of any kind in connection with this painful matter. As to the last part of the Question—whether, "even at this late period," Her Majesty's Government will take measures "to maintain the dignity and independence of the judicial bench"—I decline to answer such a Question. If my hon. Friend has a charge to make against us, let him pluck up his courage and bring his charge, and not merely frame a Question embodying it; but let him not frame a Question in a form that implies that the Government have been remiss in their duty; for, at all events, if he does, he will obtain from me no answer.
§ SIR THOMAS BATESONThen, Sir, to accommodate the right hon. Gentleman, I beg to give Notice that to-morrow I will move for a Return of the number of places, if any, where the police were successful in preventing the learned Judge being burnt in effigy, this Return not to include the two occasions upon which the rabble, assisted by the Militia, are reported to have vanquished the police.
MR. GLADSTONEPerhaps, if my hon. Friend desires further information, he will also move for a Return of the number of persons who have been punished for taking part in those proceedings, or who are now under prosecution. I can assure him I shall have no objection to furnish it.