HC Deb 31 July 1871 vol 208 cc621-3

Bill, as amended, considered.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the blank in page 3, line 10, be filled up by inserting the names Charles Wood, Barrister at Law, John Watlington Perry Watlington, esquire, and Henry Ford Barclay, esquire."—(Mr. Ayrton.)

MR. SCLATER-BOOTH

said, he must repeat a question he had put on a former occasion, when the Bill was in Committee, as to the source from which the expenses of the Commission were to be defrayed.

MR. AYRTON

said, the Bill provided no special fund upon which the expenses of the Commission should be charged. The Treasury would bear all the first expenses of that Commission, and it would be quite open to the House to deal with the future expenses hereafter in any way it thought fit. There was nothing in the Bill to prevent that.

Amendment proposed, to leave out the name of "John Watlington Perry Watlington, esquire," in order to insert the name of "John Locke, esquire,"—(Sir Charles Dilke,)—instead thereof.

MR. AYRTON

said, he had two interests at heart. The interest of his constituents, and that of seeing the Bill successfully carried into effect. Both these interests he had endeavoured to secure by the selection of properly qualified gentlemen to sit as Commissioners. He trusted the House would be prepared to accept the Commission as a whole, and by that means carry into effect the object the House had in view.

SIR HENRY SELWIN-IBBETSON

said, he sincerely believed that by adopting the names proposed by the Government, they would be likely to carry into effect the object they all so much desired, and he trusted those names would be retained.

MR. GOLDSMID

said, he thought the Commissioners would have given more confidence to the public if they had been entirely independent of the locality.

MR. COWPER-TEMPLE

did not think the names proposed by the Government satisfactory. Parties should have been selected who were not resident on the spot; for he did not think it right to appoint men on a Commission who were personally interested in matters upon which they would be called upon to decide.

LORD EUSTACE CECIL

contended that the counties adjacent to the Forest had a right to be represented in that matter.

MR. SCLATER-BOOTH

pointed out that the Commissioners were to be paid Commissioners; and it was rather an extraordinary thing for that House to enter upon a contest as to whether one of its own Members should not be appointed to a position which might be one of considerable pecuniary profit.

MR. WINGFIELD BAKER

said, he looked on the Bill as an answer to an appeal from the people interested in the enjoyment of Epping Forest; and to carry out in full that answer the Commissioners should not be men subject to local influences, in favour of lords of manors, or otherwise.

MR VERNON HARCOURT

said, he understood from the statement of the right hon. Gentleman the First Commissioner of Works that this was not to be a paid Commission. [Mr. AYRTON: Only the legal member is to be paid.] He objected to the constitution of that Commission. Two Essex gentlemen had been nominated. No doubt one of those gentlemen was to vote against the other, and the casting vote would be given to the Inclosure Commissioner. It was evident, then, that that question of Epping Forest was to be left in the hands of the Inclosure Commissioners. The House had, he believed, a just distrust of those Commissioners on questions of this kind.

Question put, "That the name of 'John Watlington Perry Watlington, esquire,' stand part of the Question."

The House divided:—Ayes 137; Noes 75: Majority 62.

MR. FAWCETT

, in moving the postponement of the further consideration of the Bill, said, it would be better that the Bill should be lost than that the Commission should be so constituted.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the further Consideration of the Bill, as amended, be postponed."—(Mr. Fawcett.)

MR. AYRTON

said, he would consent to add one name to the list of Commissioners, who fully understood that they were not to be paid.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Charles Wood, Barrister at Law, John Watlington Perry Watlington, esquire, and Henry Ford Barclay, esquire, inserted.

Motion made, and Question, "That the name of 'John Locke, esquire,' be inserted after the name of 'John Watlington Perry Watlington, esquire,'" put, and agreed to.

Other Amendments made.

Bill to be read the third time Tomorrow, at Two of the clock.