§ COLONEL NORTHrose to call the attention of the House to the Return, No. 306, lately issued to the Members, by which it appears that there are thirty-one of the Queen's Regiment now serving in India armed with muzzle-loading rifles; that arms of this description were issued to the 2nd Battalion 19th Regiment and the 96th Regiment in 1869, and to the 2nd Battalion 1st Royal Regiment last year; to call attention to the note opposite the 76th Regiment, viz.: Rifles at present in use condemned; Snider arms ready for issue to the Regiment, but no ammunition available; and, to ask what steps Her Majesty's Government will take to ensure these Regiments being properly armed without further delay. The hon. and gallant Member said, he had moved for the Return on the 10th of February, and it was laid upon the Table of the House on the 16th of June. On the 28th of July last Session his right hon. Friend opposite (Mr. Cardwell) had been asked whether it was the case that several regiments in India were still armed with the old muzzleloader; and whether some of the recruits from England who had been instructed at home in the breech-loading exercise had to learn the muzzle-loading exercise? The right hon. Gentleman stated that it was true that in some few instances muzzle-loaders were still employed. During the Recess, however, he had learnt, from letters he had received, that the number was very great, and that the latter statement contained in the question was perfectly true. Indeed, one of his correspondents, a cavalry officer in India, stated that he had witnessed shortly before the half-yearly inspection of a regiment, and was surprised to see about 200 men drawn up on the reverse flank of the column; and on asking who they were was told they were a body of men lately landed from England, where they had been taught the breech-loading exercise, and had not had time to learn the muzzle-loading exercise. 1581 To his great astonishment, this Return, when presented, showed that there were no less than 31 regiments now serving in India armed with muzzle-loaders, and that arms of this description were issued to the 2nd battalion of the 19th Regiment and the 96th Regiment in 1869, and to the 2nd battalion of the 1st Royal Regiment last year. In the case of the 76th Regiment, Snider arms were ready for issue, but no ammunition was available, and probably if the troops were called into action Snider ammunition would be served to the muzzle-loading troops, and muzzle-loading ammunition to those who were armed with Sniders. That, he thought, would have been a curious dilemma for the 76th to have been placed in if they had been ordered to take part in an expedition, which was at one time thought necessary, against the Hill tribes who had attacked the tea plantations. The 10th Regiment was stationed at Madras and was armed with Sniders, having probably secured all the breech-loading ammunition in the Presidency as the 76th, also stationed in Madras, could obtain none. On the 23rd of February, a very few days after he had moved for the Return, the noble Lord the Under Secretary of State for War (Lord Northbrook), replying to a Question asked in the House of Lords, said that anything approaching the conclusion that our Regular forces were not armed with breech-loaders was entirely contrary to the facts of the case. After that statement of his noble Friend, he could scarcely believe his eyes when he found from this Return that two regiments of cavalry and 29 of infantry were still without breech-loaders. Some of the arms, too, went back almost to the time of the Crimea. The 76th, for instance, received theirs in 1859, as did also the 10th. The 108th received theirs in 1857, 1864, 1865, and 1866. He desired, therefore, to ask what Her Majesty's Government had done since the 28th of July, 1870, when the question put to his right hon. Friend must have drawn the attention of the Government to this matter. Considering that £16,000,000 was expended upon the Army, it was perfectly unjustifiable that there should be 25,000 men in India armed with muzzle-loading rifles. [Mr. CARDWELL: It has nothing to do with our Estimates; it is Indian money.] He did not care whose money it was; 1582 but these men ought not to stand in their present dangerous condition, for no body of soldiers could stand against five shots for one. He asked whether the men forming these regiments were properly armed, and ready for any expedition they might be called on to serve in.
MR. GRANT DUFFsaid, the answer given by Lord Northbrook was perfectly correct; but he referred to the troops at home, not the Indian troops. He would further say that he was able, he believed, to set the mind of the hon. and gallant Gentleman at rest. It was true that in October, 1870, there were 32 out of the 50 European regiments in India still armed with muzzle-loaders; but since that time the Government had sent out Snider carbines and rifles to arm every man of every European regiment in the country, and in addition there were very considerable reserves. Since the 1st of October, 1870, there must have been at least 12,000,000 rounds of Snider ammunition landed in India, and a further amount of 18,500,000 rounds was going out through the Suez Canal at the rate of 500,000 at a time, as fast as they could be supplied at the War Office. That would be perfectly sufficient even if there were any uneasiness in India, which at present was not the case.
§ COLONEL NORTHstated that the Returns were dated March 24, April 12, and April 26, 1871.
SIR JOHN HAYstated that according to a Return laid on the Table by the Secretary for War there were 54,000 men then unarmed with the Snider rifle. Could the Secretary for War say that 54,000 Sniders had been sent out since that Return was made?
§ SIR HENRY STORKSsaid, he could assure the hon. and gallant Gentleman that a sufficient number had since been sent to supply every man with the new weapon.
§ MR. EASTWICKThe arms have been sent; but have they been issued to the regiments?