HC Deb 04 August 1871 vol 208 cc925-7

Bill considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Clauses 1 to 23, inclusive, agreed to.

Clause 24 (Repeal of provision (11) of sect. 19 of the 32 and 33 Vict. c. 14).

MR. M'LAREN

, in the absence of the right hon. and learned Gentleman (Mr. Gordon), proposed the insertion of a proviso at the end of the clause, extending the exemption already enjoyed in respect of agricultural horses and carts to their use on Sunday in the conveyance of a farmer and his family to a place of Divine worship.

Amendment proposed, In page 11, line 10, after the word "seventy-two," to add the words "It shall not be necessary to take out a licence for any cart or horse used for the conveyance of any goods or burden in the case of trade or husbandry, although such cart or horse shall be used on Sunday for carrying the owner thereof or his family to or from any place of worship."—(Mr. M'Laren.)

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, doubtless the employment of these agricultural horses and carts for the purpose referred to was a good work, but it had no connection with the ground of the original exemption, and therefore he must object to the insertion of the proviso.

Question put, "That those words be there added."

The Committee divided: — Ayes 39; Noes 43: Majority 4.

Clause agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

MR. ALDERMAN W. LAWRENCE

moved a new clause, to exempt every dwelling house let out in separate lodgings or tenements, at a rent below 7s. 8d. per week, or under £20 per annum for each separate tenement, from the inhabited house duties. The result of the exemption would be to relieve the owner of a house who employed it in the most profitable manner by letting it out in tenements.

A Clause (Exemption of certain houses from Inhabited House Duty,) — (Mr. Alderman Lawrence,)—brought up, and read the first time.

Question put, "That the Clause be read a second time."

The Committee divided: — Ayes 9; Noes 70: Majority 61.

New Clause.

(Reduction of Inhabited House Duties on certain houses.)

"From and after the fifth day of April, one thousand eight hundred and seventy one, every inhabited dwelling house which, with the household and other offices, yards, and gardens therewith occupied and charged, is or shall be worth the rent of twenty pounds or upwards by the year, which shall be occupied by any person who shall carry on in the said dwelling house the business of an hotel keeper or an inn keeper or coffee house keeper, although not licensed to sell therein by retail beer, ale, wine, or other liquors, there shall be charged for every twenty shillings of such annual value of any such dwelling house the sum of sixpence,"—(Mr. Alderman Lawrence,)—

brought up, and read the first time.

On Question, That the clause be read the second time,

MR. STANSFELD

said, he must oppose the clause on the ground of the extra taxation paid by licensed victuallers. [Several hon. MEMBERS: What is it?] Heavy licence duties.

MR. W. H. SMITH

said, he did not see why coffeehouse keepers should not be placed in the same position as other traders who paid 6d. instead of 9d.

MR. STANSFELD

said, the coffeehouse was an occupied house.

MR. W. H. SMITH

said, so was the trader's.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, other traders kept shops; but a coffeehouse was not a shop.

MR. FAWCETT

said, he thought some better answer ought to be given as to the special taxation paid by licensed victuallers. It must be remembered that their trade was a monopoly, and coffeehouse keeping was not.

After further short discussion, Clause read a second time, agreed to, and added to the Bill.

MR. ALDERMAN W. LAWRENCE

moved a new clause, to exempt offices and places of business from the inhabited house duty, although servants might dwell in them for the protection of the premises.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, he must acknowledge the anomalous state of the law regarding the rating of inhabited houses; but as he learned that the clause would involve a loss of £200,000, which he could not afford to give up at the present period of the Session, which period, moreover, precluded present legislation, he asked the hon. Member for the City of London (Mr. Alderman Lawrence) not to press his Motion, and the Government would consider the subject at an early period of next Session.

MR. ALDERMAN W. LAWRENCE

said, the question had been a long time before the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whose explanation was unsatisfactory.

MR. GLADSTONE

said, he was disappointed at the way the hon. Member for the City of London met the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who had not an opportunity of proposing a remedy this Session.

MR. FAWCETT

said, that as the most satisfactory remedy, he would suggest the ultimate abolition of all exemptions.

MR. W. FOWLER

said, although the clause would not do perfect justice, it would remove a great injustice.

MR. W. H. SMITH

said, he must support the suggestion of general legislation, with a view to the abolition of all exemptions.

Clause negatived.

Bill reported; as amended, to be considered upon Monday next.