§ (Mr. Goschen, Mr. Arthur Peel.)
§ Bill considered in Committee.
§ (In the Committee.)
§ On Question, "That the Preamble be postponed,"
§ MR. FIELDENmoved that the Chairman report Progress.
§ After short conversation, Question put.
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes 2; Noes 53: Majority 51.
§ Clause 1 (Maintenance of in-door poor to be a charge upon the Metropolitan Common Poor Fund).
§ SIR MICHAEL HICKS BEACHsaid, he thought that some increase in the staff of the Poor Law Board would be rendered necessary by this clause, which placed a large proportion of the in-door relief, estimated by the right hon. Gentleman at £250,000 a year on the Common Fund. To check this in some degree, he proposed that 4d. instead of 6d. be taken from the Common Fund for the maintenance of the in-door poor. He begged to move in Clause 1, sub-section 3, line 30, to leave out "sixpence," and insert fourpence.
§ MR. GOSCHENsaid, he would consent to an Amendment making the charge 5d., which would put upon the Common Fund £168,000, while £117,000 would remain on the parishes.
§ MR. T. CHAMBERSsaid, he preferred 4d.
§ SIR EDWARD COLEBROOKEsaid, he was of the same opinion.
§ MR. SAMUDAsaid, he also was of opinion that some check should be placed on the disposition to use the Common Fund too freely.
§ MR. GOSCHENsaid, the principle of the Bill was to equalize the rates as far as possible.
§ SIR MICHAEL HICKS BEACHsaid, he would withdraw his Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ MR. T. CHAMBERSsaid, he proposed to omit that part of the clause which authorized the levying of fines upon parishes for not carrying out the orders and regulations of the Poor Law Board.
§ Amendment proposed, in page 1, line 32, to leave out from the words "If the 2136 guardians," to the end of the Clause, inclusive.—(Mr. Thomas Chambers.)
§ MR. W. M. TORRENSsaid, the clause tended to the suppression of outdoor relief, and, therefore, he should support the Motion for its omission.
§ MR. GOSCHENsaid, that if the Boards of Guardians were to draw upon a Common Fund, some authority should exist for the purpose of keeping them up to a common standard. By the end of next year, there would be 11,000 more beds in the metropolis, which he hoped would prevent overcrowding; and it was not the object of this sub-section to give further powers to the Poor Law Board with regard to the enlargement of workhouses, but simply to avoid those dead-locks which sometimes occurred. There were as yet social dangers in a system of out-door relief as in that of in-door relief.
§ MR. LIDDELLsaid, he regarded this provision as a blow at out-door relief, and as conferring powers utterly unheard-of before, and he, therefore, thought the matter ought to be discussed in a fuller House.
§ MR. AYRTONsaid, the provision did not propose anything new; it only said that when a Board of Guardians neglected to carry out an Order issued under an Act of Parliament, the Board should lose the advantage they enjoyed under that Act.
§ Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes 38; Noes 14: Majority 24.
§ Clause agreed to.
§ Clause 2 struck out.
§ Remaining clauses agreed to.
§ Bill reported; as amended, to be considered upon Monday next.