§ SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTEsaid, he would beg to ask the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether he will be good enough to furnish the House with a statement of the property belonging to the Established Church in Ireland, with which the Government propose by their measures to deal?
MR. GLADSTONEMany of the figures relating to the subject are, in their present state, only matters of opinion; but I think it is our duty to give them, as the basis of facts, as far as we can supply them, in any matter that 840 may be desirable, and we shall therefore be most happy to meet any inquiry which may tend to the production of facts. With regard, however, to those figures which are matters of computation, I would ask the House to take them as opinions only. As I believe that the figures, though not very numerous, which I gave this day week, were not quite accurately reported, and as the matter is one of importance and of great interest, perhaps the House will allow me to recapitulate them in order to avoid misunderstanding. The estimated amount of the property of the Irish Church, without reckoning anything either for the fabrics of glebe-houses and the fabrics and sites of churches, constitutes one point, the other being the estimated amount of charge under the provisions of the Bill as they stand. The figures, as I stated them, were as follows; but I will now add one or two more particulars for the sake of greater clearness. I estimated, on the part of the Government, that the probable proceeds of the tithe rent-charge—speaking in round numbers, as I shall do throughout—would be £9,000,000. The proceeds of the leased lands and perpetuity-rents, or the value of them, might, I said, be taken at £4,000,000. The value of the glebe lands and other lands, let out for short terms, would be not less than £1,500,000. The value of the lands in the occupation of ecclesiastics might be taken at £750,000; and the value of stocks, moneys, and other miscellaneous funds, not being tithe or land, also at £750,000. The total of these figures is £16,000,000. Then, with respect to the charge, it stands as follows:—The value of the life interests of all incumbents—that is to say, of bishops, dignitaries of cathedrals, and parochial clergy—will be £4,900,000. The value of the interests of the curates, as they are proposed to be taken, will be £800,000. The value of the lay compensations will be £600,000; the bulk of those lay compensations being to either officers of cathedrals, and to clerks and sextons of parishes who hold freeholds. The estimated value of advowsons is £300,000. The conjectural amount of private endowments is £500,000. The building charges, which can be computed with a certain degree of accuracy, and which must be paid in order to get possession of the glebe-houses, is 841 £250,000. The sums required to make good the provisions in respect of the various Presbyterian charges and Maynooth College, £1,100,000. The expenses of the Commission, with all its officers, for ten years, at £20,000 a year, will be £200,000. The total of these figures is £8,650,000, against the sum on the credit side of £16,000,000, leaving a difference of £7,350,000. But as, on the whole, I thought the results would come out rather better than worse under the provisions of the Bill, I took them at £16,000,000 as the whole—£8,500,000 for the amount of charge, and £7,500,000 for the amount of surplus.