ADJOURNED DEBATE. (Hansard, 30 June 1869)

§ MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE
said, that having been unable, owing to the lateness of the hour, to address the House on the former occasion, he wished now to say that it was not possible for the Government to assent to the second reading. He had no particular liking for the law which the hon. Member (Mr. W. Johnston) by this Bill called upon 865 the House to repeal; nor, indeed, for any law which was of a special and exceptional nature, and which created offences of a technical character. It was on the ground of proved necessity only that the Government declined to consent to the repeal of the existing law, which was intended to remedy very grave and serious evils. Few persons, he believed, were aware of the state of things prevailing in the North of Ireland at certain periods of the year. There existed between different classes of the people what might be called an armed peace or an armed observation. On these occasions one of the two parties marched out with a great number of flags, banners, drums, and other music; they fired shots and hurrahed as they went along. It might or might not be the case that the opposite party did the same, but they often did. Sometimes, but not always, these processions passed off without bloodshed. A great deal depended upon the route taken by the procession—upon whether the procession invaded or did not invade what was considered by the other party sacred territory. That was a state of things which was scarcely credible in the age in which we lived, but it was proved. The famous battle of Dolly's Brae some years ago excited general attention, and the Government of the day, with the assent of all parties in that House, took measures to prevent, as far possible, a repetition of such affrays. Only a few weeks ago, however, a collision of the same kind occurred at Pointz Pass in the North of Ireland. It was the Roman Catholics who on the latter occasion, thought fit to make this demonstration. This act of folly provoked something worse, for when the party reached a spot where the road ran through a wood they were received by an ambuscade formed by the Orange party, and a collision ensued, leading to very serious results, and to the loss of more than one life. The circumstances remained for judicial investigation, and he only mentioned them now for the purpose of explaining to the House the sort of thing which went on upon both sides. The steps taken by the Government to prevent bloodshed on these occasions, and something like civil war upon a small scale, consisted partly of prosecutions at Common Law or under the special provisions of the Party Processions Act 866 after the violation of the law. but chiefly of the immediate use of the constabulary and troops. What was practically a small army was sent down to the North of Ireland for the purpose of maintaining peace, and this was a duty devolving equally upon every Government. Last year, under the late Government, some twenty stipendiary magistrates were sent, in addition to those resident in the district; the police force was also largely increased, and a strong force of cavalry and infantry was likewise ordered to the North. Exactly similar steps were being taken by the Government with reference to the approaching anniversaries. It might be asked what all these police and soldiers did in Ulster. The course pursued, if only one party appeared and made a display, was to abstain from interference at the time, but to take, if possible, the names of some of the more prominent actors, with the view, at a later period of making them amenable to justice. If, however, there were two parties in the same neighbourhood, and a collision were likely to occur, the force on the spot interposed, barred the entrance to some street or road, and so cut off the hostile bodies from each other. Measures of precaution such as these would be imperative upon the executive Government, whether the Party Processions Act were in existence or not. With respect to the law itself, the enforcing of its provisions was not so simple a matter as some might be disposed to imagine. The fact could not be denied that the operation of the law had produced in the minds of large and respectable classes in the North of Ireland a sense of inequality and unfairness. The fact undoubtedly was that the Act was technical, and therefore had to be strictly construed. Demonstrations had been made in other parts of Ireland which were much resented by the Protestants of the North, yet it had been decided by the Law Officers of the Crown that they did not come within the provisions of the Party Processions Act. Of these demonstrations, some were thoroughly free from imputation—such, for instance, as the O'Connell procession some years ago, the objections to which he could never quite understand. But there wore others of a more questionable kind. The M'Manus funeral produced a large amount of irritation, but the most objectionable were those called "the Fenian 867 funerals," in honour of the three men executed at Manchester. To one or more of the earliest of these funerals no impediment whatever was offered by the Government of the day; and the declaration of the highest authority of that Government that those funerals were not against the law produced, probably, more than anything which had. since occurred, a feeling of great irritation among the Protestants. That feelings such as these should exist among influential and loyal and most respectable classes was undoubtedly an evil; but there had been no intention, either on the part of those who framed the Act or of those who were called upon to administer it, to subject those classes to any inequality. In some parts of the North, again, the law had remained practically a dead letter owing to the difficulty of enforcing its provisions. It had been found difficult to identify those who had taken a part in processions. An armed force was usually present to represent the authority of the law; but, except they were called upon to do so for the preservation of peace, for that force to proceed to extremities would be productive of greater evils than those with which they interfered in order to suppress. The law had been most leniently administered; in fact, almost with excessive lenity. But the Government could not consent to a repeal of the law without having before them the results of full and careful investigation. The Government, accordingly, recognizing the undoubted evils and difficulties which he had described and the very grave differences of opinion existing, were about to cause an impartial inquiry to be instituted into the operation of the Party Processions Act at the present moment and for some years past. That inquiry would have for its object to enable the Government to decide whether that law ought to be maintained and enforced more rigorously, or whether any change ought to be made in its provisions. In view, however, of the extreme excitement prevailing this year in the North of Ireland, and with the information which they possessed, they must decline the responsibility of depriving themselves of any powers with which they were at present armed for maintaining law and order and respect for the rights and feelings of all classes. There was, as he had stated, room for doubt as to the propriety of maintaining 868 the Party Processions Act in its present shape; but there could be no room for doubt as to the propriety of maintaining the public peace, or of preventing those disastrous consequences which might ensue from any collision in the North of Ireland. The Government, therefore, were unable, without full investigation, to consent to strike this Act out of the statute book. At the same time, he had great hopes that peace would be maintained; and nothing, certainly, should be wanting on the part of the Government to secure that object. Much, however, could be done by others; and he was bound to repeat the expression of his regret that his hon. Friend the Member for Belfast (Mr. W. Johnston) should have thought it his duty to stimulate the excitement already prevailing in Ireland by his letter published the other day. He appealed to his hon. Friend and to all gentlemen of influence in the North of Ireland, and especially to those who were in the commission of the peace, to co-operate with the Government in preventing any displays which, especially in the present excited state of feeling, might lead to disastrous and lamentable consequences in a part of Ireland which, in many respects, formed so admirable a portion of the United Kingdom.

§ MR. W. JOHNSTON
said, that at that hour—twenty minutes to six o'clock —it would be absurd to continue the discussion.

§ COLONEL WILSON-PATTEN
said, he wished to know in what manner it was proposed to conduct the inquiry of which the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary had spoken—by a Committee of the House, or otherwise?

§ MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE
Certainly not by a Committee of the House; it will be undertaken by the Government upon their own responsibility.

§ COLONEL WILSON-PATTEN
By a Commission, then, I presume?

§ MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE
Probably by a Commission.

§ SIR JOHN GRAY
appealed to the right hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government to name an early day for renewing the debate, so that the discussion might be read by the country before the 12th of July.